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Boss DR 660 vs Renoise

drum machines hardware sequencer comparison

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#26 clirke21

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:56

@Renoised: That sounds great! I actually had a similar experience with 4-tracks a while ago. I just wasn't used to them and it felt wrong on all levels..until my brain started clicking for them a bit and now I love it. Makes perfect sense. :>

 

JJOS is great, absolutely! It's like an old piece of hardware that still keeps constantly evolving. Probably has its downsides, too, but from what I've heard, the basic version without JJOS is really not worth it...in comparison.

 

@lettuce: I probably should've been more clear, but let me explain what I wanna do a bit better: I'm not going to replace the laptop with this for good. I'll still use the laptop, but whenever I do, I'll just use Renoise and Reaper and I'm totally satisfied with that and have no need for any hardware with that setup. But sometimes I get bored of that and wanna get away from it and want to have something that is simple, hardware and limited..no real screens, no way of checking my e-mail or the internet real quick or log on on Discord. The 4-track was the first thing I got and I love the attitude and philosophy of it. Yeah, 4 tracks aren't THAT great compared to modern recorders, but that's not the point. Same with the MPC 1000.

 

So as an alternative setup, whenever I get bored of my laptop setup and want to work away from that within more constraints, I'm sure it'll do fine. I get your point though. :3 It's probably irrational and a bit insane, but that's the way my brain works. I'm not sure why I can't just do things like other people.  :clownstep:


Edited by clirke21, 25 January 2018 - 07:00.


#27 lettuce

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 20:47

I know what you mean about distractions on the laptop and that sometimes the workflow of hardware, having physical knobs and buttons in front of you can be nice. Fading in and out tracks using faders live and recording that like lee perry and all the old school dub studios can sound better and more human than fading them in by automation or commands...same goes for recording live knob twiddling on TB303 and stuff, rather than automated parameter movements.

 

I disagree with you about JJOS and agree with random that the MPC1000 event editor is better than it.

It is much like a tracker, but empty space is not shown. It only lists the positions in which there is data.

A quarter note has a resolution of 96 pulses / parts, so 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 and so on are triplets while 3, 6, 12, 24, 48 and 96 are straight beats, whereas JJOS is a simple grid with dots (  which also has its advantages I suppose, speeds up the sequencing in general ).



#28 clirke21

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:31

I disagree with you about JJOS and agree with random that the MPC1000 event editor is better than it.

It is much like a tracker, but empty space is not shown. It only lists the positions in which there is data.

A quarter note has a resolution of 96 pulses / parts, so 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 and so on are triplets while 3, 6, 12, 24, 48 and 96 are straight beats, whereas JJOS is a simple grid with dots (  which also has its advantages I suppose, speeds up the sequencing in general ).

 

Interesting point. I can't find his post on that though, can you tell me which post you're referring to? I can only find this: http://forum.renoise...noise/?p=365189 in which he states that JJOS is a must have.



#29 encryptedmind

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 09:50

@lettuce has some good points, but you can't regret buying a guitar, with no midi or screen either. The MPC works best for folks who think like Brian Eno where his entire studio is his instrument. Certainly works for the entire hip hop scene for the past 2 decades. It all about how you use it , not what it can or cannot do. I really have to quote Mark Twain here again for this:

'A successful book is not made of what is in it, but what is left out of it.'.

Likewise MPC does the things it can exceedingly well, and many of which transcends gear fashion trends. Like a good book makes you think and learn and pontificate at the same time and not get bloated with 'filler chapters', it's exactly the same thing with an MPC. I find the same thing with Renoise, it's like an excellent book. You can always complain about a muffin recipe missing from Proust but it's not there for a reason. The author did not think it was relevant to have a muffin recipe in any of the pages even if some of his readers might be cake addicts and need their daily fix. That is where bibliography works best, for references to others works for further research if the reader feels like it, similar to your plugin architecture on Renoise.

Btw for the DR 880 and similar drum machines with their unique falvours and features, I dare you to program a live rock groove in any MPC especially the older ones with that level of realism without significant time spent doing step editing in the LCD. It's one thing that will take you aback when you go for the 1000 or 500 or any other in that series. MPC does not jam well with laptop like workflow where you just visit an event and drag and drop it or do fades like in Renoise as a tracker would.. you need to use step edit for fixed grooves and mostly live record mode for the human parts. The sample layering and repeated takes on the pads that MPC 1000 has will test your patience, unless you like it of course. The beauty of this interface is that it makes you hear more and listen critically more than thinking in post production terms of an edit done later. You really strive to make every single one step you recorded live or via step mode make it sell its full worth and you go about your compositions and productions with a very ciritical ear becos your time is super important. This kind of discipline and ear focussed workflow is quite different from the we will fix it later trend of DAW based production. Also this let's to you be very creative not only in terms of being artistic but in also making the most of your hardware as it is.

When you buy a live drum set you are essential stuck with a single kit but you can and will develop methods to get a large number of sounds from it. What you do learn in the process goes from drum technique, snare flame, rim hits, snare sound variations/edge/centre hits, diddles, rolls, cymbal work, ride and bell playing, kick work, hihat pedal work, closed and open variants, tom work, floor tom diddles, drum fills, hand eye coordination, single hand techniques, mic'ing techniques and so on. This can only happen if you use your drum machine as a real one. This shift can only happen of your drum machine provides you with such a setup where you can emulate a drum kit in every way possible to high degree of realism. That is why I was recommending the DR 880 becos without a laptop running a 80 GB drum plugin inside a DAW it's practically very difficult to have that kind of facility in a setup that is without a laptop and fully hardware.

For the MPC you can layer kick sounds from every kit in the DR 880 and make new kits from that, use the EQ and compressor and reverb processing from the drum machine and also re effect it with the ones in the MPC. Changing kits on an existing groove is not so simple with an MPC because you have to either change the sounds individually or load programs for each kit and that is good in some ways but not while auditioning for a perfect kit sound or testing with various shuffles or fills. You can also build your own kits within DR right from the display with live response as the pattern is playing so it's not just a preset system, you can check individual snares and kicks as they change from sound to sound. This kind of browsing convenience is nowhere in an MPC. You can program entire songs inside the drum machine machine and sample them back in to MPC and layer a groove. You can provide full bass synth and live bass groove support to MPC from thr DR and preprogeam chord templates in the drum machine and just record to MPC. MPC will do 16 levels for level and pitch and provide a mapped bass sample done chromatically for you to play it and it works for thr most part but also involves you for detailed bass work, but if realism and speed is what you desire along with a ready bank of bass and drum sound sources to go with the limited storage space on the MPC. Say you want to do bass chords and pitch bends on the MPC, how will MPC do that for you? For the chords part you have to figure out the chord shapes on the 16 pads that are mapped to one octave only unless you change banks and work it that way. For bends I have absolutely no idea how will it work because you can use the Q link and map it to tune or pitch and limit the range to use it as a mod wheel, but I just use my bass guitar for such things when required or use an alternative source like the DR if my bass guitar is not there with me, say when I am travelling. On the DR 880, the entire fingerboard is laid out to a 20 pad bass guitar layout, pretuned and mapped to the first position bass guitar lay out and upto 3 octaves total from one single button and all the note names are on the pads too, you don't spend time trying to visualise the bass note names on your MPC. Really hard to beat this kind of convenience. For pitch bends the step edit provides a detailed and 'visual' grid to program your bends and also quantizes them. Couple that with MPC and you can just layer two separate bass sounds playing the same groove and make a phat bass sound with a single Pad 2 layer sampled bass phrase.

For tom and cymbal work and fills MPC has the provisions but not the ease and speed. MPC is perfect for hip hop beats because they don't work with velocity too much and intricate pattern work like Squarepusher, rather they are about grooves and track mutes and sampled phrases, so in reality most hip hop guys don't even play the bass or drums or instruments or even step record it, rather they just sample it and trigger it at accented beat positions.
MPC can be seen as an excellent 48-64 track cassette recorder that triggers what was recorded on each track without doing a rewind. If the RAM was not so limited you could record entire songs on a single pad if used just as a recorder.

Also from my own experience my 'drum work' and finger drumming has become more and more responsive and well controlled and the study of jazz and live drumming more engaging since I got this unit. The very fact that you can immediately execute what you learn from a drum session or lesson is what I am totally sold for. I am also a very away from laptop guy this past year especially for music production. The benefit is that your ears will sharpen like never before and for the genre of my interest Jazz it's an invaluable skill to maintain and perfect everytime and not let it atrophy.

You may have made your decision now and MPC 1000 is a great unit but in time you could be reminded of some of the benefit from other gear and hence I wanted to give a clear picture of what I have experienced from having all the above mentioned gear so far. Remember there is no one right setup so ultimately get what works for you. If hip hop heads used a live drum set and sm57 for their drums all these years we would never have the boom bap legacy to begin with. Btw DR 880 is no way vintage (just older) yet and has a well supported site at

https://www.boss.inf...roducts/dr-880/


I would like to buy some similar drum machines that are all in one units and not like Maschine which is tied to a laptop. Elektron has some good machines but does it do live stuff very well, that I have to investigate. The Korg sequencers are good by all measures except that doing swing is not a good idea at all becos they don't record anything off the quantization grid. Good for techno stuff though.

Edited by encryptedmind, 27 January 2018 - 10:20.

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#30 clirke21

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 11:21

@encryptedmind: A muffin recipe in Marcel Prousts 4000+ page long classic, what an nice analogy :3. Very good points and inspiring words here.

 

I haven't decided on anything yet. I currently am considering just sticking to Renoise for a bit, this morning I came up with something and finished it (after a long time of staying away from Renoise, focussing on my guitar-playing) and it rekindled my love for it again. Financially it's better, too, as I have some big things coming up and I need some stability right now.

 

Have you ever used the DR880 just as a sequencer for other gear or samples in Renoise? If yes, do you think that would be beneficial? And what are your thoughts on its predecessor, the DR 660 that Squarepusher used until 2001?


Edited by clirke21, 27 January 2018 - 11:24.

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#31 Renoised

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 20:55

Just curious, what happend to the Elektron box you picked-up cheap?
 



#32 clirke21

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 21:21

Just curious, what happend to the Elektron box you picked-up cheap?
 

 

I sold it.  :badteeth: It's a nice box, but I decided to rather continue trying to master Renoise, using it in conjunction with Hy-Seq16x3 (a cheap x0x-style sequencer plugin), instead of having a clunky setup with a hole in my wallet. I gotta be careful not to fall into the same trap here with my current idealization of Boss and Akai sequencers x) I didn't have a sampler and 4-track at the time though (still don't have a sampler), may have made more sense to use it in a little hardware-only setup instead of using it with Renoise.


Edited by clirke21, 27 January 2018 - 21:24.


#33 lettuce

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 21:22

Personally I think that the event editor in MPC1000 was genius.

It is like a tracker that doesn't use hexadecimal.

I think its an awesome template for a new type of tracker that is easier to understand.

After all using hex was about saving screen space in the beginning.

Compressing 256 into a 'two byte nibble' ( if thats what it is called ).

 

Apart from that advantage of MPC1000 I would say don't be fooled by the beauty of those custom models with 'thick and fat' pads from MPCstuff.com.

Like the picture below. Trust me, after a while using it with the clicky buttons that break and the shitty sensitivity on the pads that need 'corking', the limited memory and expensive Akai RAM cards, the old school compact flash cards...you will want to throw it at the wall. The intense and loud clicking of the cheap buttons will make anyone you live with or your neighbours want to kill you if you sequence at night.

It looks beautiful, it has a great event editor, it has great ins and outs but overall dont bother.

Get yourself a korg padkontrol or Akai MPD218...much better. But yes, it involves a laptop.

If you like the AKAI workflow and design, check out MPC2.0 software that just came out. Looks like AKAI are upping their game.

 

akai-MPC-1000-16squarez-Murdered-Out-e14


Edited by lettuce, 27 January 2018 - 21:29.

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#34 clirke21

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 21:52

@lettuce: Have you ever used the Qy700? It's also got an event editor that is similar to that of the MPC. http://www.midimanua...ual/qy700e1.pdf (page 255). A piano roll, too.

 

It also supports Sysex, too, which, last time I tried, was a pain in the *** to get working using Renoise. (trying modulate parameters on my TX81Z (rip))..That's probably what Squarepusher used to do his insane fm-stuff around the time of Go Plastic and Ultravisitor.


Edited by clirke21, 27 January 2018 - 21:54.


#35 lettuce

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 22:35

@Clirke21 :

 

I have never used the QY700, but I used the QY100. I think they are quite similar.

Honestly, it was o.k, especially for the form factor and portability, but not that great, just o.k.

 

@encrytpedmind :

 

 

 I dare you to program a live rock groove in any MPC especially the older ones with that level of realism without significant time spent doing step editing in the LCD.

 

I can't say I agree with you that the DR880 is better for realistic sounding drums to play guitar to.

Just by using breaks from vinyl that have been chopped into individual hits its  possible to get way more realistic and crispier sounding drums to play guitar to by using the MPC100, or renoise. You say it would take too long step editing but the design of the MPC1000 is purposefully aimed at those who want to tap out drum parts live.

 

Also, for those who had direct drive technics and a mixer the sampled individual hits from vinyl breaks could have that extra character and movement added to them by scratching in a kick for example, or slowing down speeding up while sampling by pushing the platter round faster or slowing it down by pushing your finger on it...those kinds of tape stops people did when they would sample a drum hit and turn of the spinning of the platter.

 

In that sense, a drumbeat from MPC can have so much more character than a drumbeat from DR880 ( although DR880 is not bad either ).

Also like you said, sample the sounds from DR880 into MPC or renoise, or any sampler-sequencer with a decent design and you have more options available to spice up your beats and get them sounding nuanced. Something that sounds quite human and less like a machine with no character.


Edited by lettuce, 27 January 2018 - 22:37.


#36 encryptedmind

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 22:50

@lettuce: Ya well that's the main reason you don't see rock bands or jazz bands use n MPC obviously because the MPC is perfect for groove based 4 bar hip hop breaks or DnB too but for a 20 bar jazz solo drumming or extensive fills with intro outro and tom and cymbal work with a realistic sounding drum sequences on an MPC will be tedious, not difficult or impossible, but inconvenient. It's not the best interface for live drums but rather excels as a sampler sequencer. These methods you mentioned are exactly what I am taking about as it's used in hip hop and Neo soul a lot! I however have both the units so I can objectively say that for super sensitive and responsive finger drumming and well velocity sampled layered realistic sounding drums that works totally in hardware with a large amount of quality and track ready(eq'd, compressed, spatial processing enabled) drum sounds and bass sounds, I have to come to the conclusion that the MPC pads are no way that responsive or even sensitive for delicate snare rolls but require lot of finger pressure actually. Additionally the MPC is actually sonically empty and contains no sounds to use on its own except for the CF card that comes with it and the internal flash demo stuff which is just peanuts and meant to startup only. To me there is now an option to produce beats hip hop style by sampling from vinyl or cassette or play a full track live with an entire kit without even spending time on building an MPC program. Further because sounds can be triggered from the MPC too via midi in from the dr 880, what the MPC does not give I get from the DR 880 by playing the finger drum friendly pads on the DR and make it play the MPC sounds too, so I get both benefits from this setup. I can understand most people have this to rompler mindset that makes them feel that sounds will be limiting etc but not at this level of quality and the unit itself is built like a tank. MPC is also built like a tank. When you buy a proper instrument you get the most out of it, I can certainly recommend the dr 880 unit.

Finally this unit and the Alesis SR 18 are the two industry secret tools for many rock and country records having drum tracks that have forced the rest of the session tracks to up their ante because these units sound so complete in the final productions.

Edited by encryptedmind, 27 January 2018 - 22:55.

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#37 lettuce

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 23:14

Yeah, the pads on the MPC1000 are shit. You are right, you have to smack them hard.

The MPC1000 seems like its built like a tank, but actually those clicky, plasicky buttons do break quite easily and they are a bitch to replace.

 

I prefer drumbeats that are built from breaks chopped into individual hits but for sure building those kits takes time, especially with that little LCD screen and the jog wheel being used to line up start and end points, rather than chopping up breaks fast like you would in the renoise sample editor.

 

The DR880 pads are really much more sensitive but they are also too small to do single stroke rolls with the use of two fingers ( either one on each hand or one hand, two fingers ). You can always assign the same sound to two pads alongside each other though. Its just like having a wider pad.

 

AKAI-MPD218 with renoise is my favourite right now. For the pad sensitivity, the price, the backlightling, the thick and fat pads, easy plug and play functionality...and obviously renoise especially for the great, fast sample editor, the DSP effects, the genius design, highest resolution sequencer worldwide and the awesome price.

 

I do want audiotracks though. I'm sure you understand that kind of wish as a guitar player. Sometimes you have to play a song from start to finish. Its not the same to record guitar one pattern length at a time. I know that I could use sample offsets to get a long guitar track to start at the right place at the start of each pattern but its hassle. 

 

This kind of feature is more cubase or logic.

I wish they would release Cubasis2 for windows multitouch laptops.

It looks good for audiotracks use like an 8-track.

Don't see why it should be exclusively iPad.

Windows laptops such as microsoft surface and lenovo yoga would be perfectly suited to use Cubasis2.

I really think Cubasis is actally the future of Cubase.

Doing away with the mouse and keyboard and going completely touch has a nicer workflow a bit like dedicated hardware, very hands on.

 

But iPad is ridiculously expensive, then they purposefully slow it down a year later...the file system is terrible sandboxed and locked down, cant name and create my own folders in a heirarchical folder structure. Transferring samples is hassle with bullshit itunes in the way..rendering to .wav is hassle with the need for a wifi connection and dropbox or whatever cloud bullshit...

 

Cubasis needs to go windows 10. Then, why would anyone need an ipad ever again.

Yeah, for audiotracks.


Edited by lettuce, 27 January 2018 - 23:18.


#38 clirke21

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 23:22

@encryptedmind: You're doing a great job at selling me that DR. Really sparked my interest now (they're pretty cheap on eBay). It'd be interesting for realistic stuff, as you said, and would give me a break from the IDM-ish, referential sample-based drum-stuff I do in Renoise (so it wouldn't try to replace it which it couldn't do anyways), but still with the possibility of doing intricate stuff..I'm not that into jazz, but have been exploring all kinds of weird avant-garde rock stuff the past few months and would like to explore that without getting a drum kit..Wonder how far you can go with them.

 

@lettuce: Audio tracks would be awesome indeed, but I guess that's not what trackers are for (one could use encryptedminds muffin recipe analogy here). I use Reaper and a rewired Renoise instance in a separate FX track for this, it's synced and it gives me the kind of fluency I need. Reaper is cheap as hell and limited, exactly what I'm into. There are some workarounds in case you wanna process the guitar as well..I'm also interested in just recording entire Renoise tracks into my 4-track and then recording guitar over it..then playing around with all the weird stuff you can do using tape..I like the feel of that..or syncing them (but that would probably be a pain in the *** because of the weird protocols used)


Edited by clirke21, 27 January 2018 - 23:30.


#39 El°HYM

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 23:43

The mpc 1000 pads are indeed a problem, they started making plastic mpc's after numark bought akai...u can get a replacement kit here:

 

https://www.mpcstuff...ad-fix-upgrade/

 

Yet, the question is, if another machine wouldnt make more sense, like the 2000/xl which is still nearer to the original Linn's than most of the others.

 

Still not a 3000 or 60 though, also check some of the newer ones after inMusic takeover, as those seem a bit better than their first numark/akai ones.


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#40 lettuce

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 23:46

Which 4-track do you have? Tascam?


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#41 clirke21

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 23:55

@El°HYM: The 2000xl, 3000 and 60 are quite expensive tho these days, aren't they? Especially the 3000, because J-Dilla used it. Similar ridiculous price ratio that the old roland drum machines have (808, 909 etc.) except the 2000xl maybe..I hate that culture.

 

@lettuce: Yeah, Tascam 424 MK-I. Probably one of the simpler portastudios (only 2-band-eq, no xlr inputs etc etc.). There is one that supports MIDI I've heard, but I avoided that because too many things could go wrong with it (it looks really complex and professional..one has to remind oneself tho that it's still "just" a cassette recorder)


Edited by clirke21, 27 January 2018 - 23:59.

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#42 El°HYM

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 00:08

The older MPC's are mostly more expensive, this is tru...take a look at the newer Millennia ones then...


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#43 random

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 00:31

Don't see why it should be exclusively iPad.

 

I miss a simple patternsequenzer on windows with duration
know only seq24, sadly buggy
ios have genome, modstep, beatmaker, pattering
no idea why it is not something on windows, dont need, want a monster daw as bitwig or live

think about switch to redux (yes, the renoise sampler is amazing) with my "old" ipad air, or any hardware



#44 random

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 00:59

Have you ever used the DR880 just as a sequencer for other gear or samples in Renoise? If yes, do you think that would be beneficial? And what are your thoughts on its predecessor, the DR 660 that Squarepusher used until 2001?

 

two bad experiences from me (maybe not relevant for you)

 

many drum computers don't have the midi function: local of.  important when you want to use a second controller or keyboard.
only 1 midi drum layout (a mpc or korg padcontroll can load/save different settings)


Edited by random, 28 January 2018 - 01:03.


#45 lettuce

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 01:05

@random :

 

I'd really like to see more app developers going cross platform and releasing apps on windows as well as ios and android.

Foward-thinking developers such as nightradio ( sunvox ) and Reg ( caustic ) have already gone down this route with both sunvox and caustic available on all 3 platforms, windows, ios and android. Hopefully Cubasis will be released for windows. My laptop and my wallet dont have the power for protools or the full version of cubase. Cubasis looks like the ideal portable, fully functional alternative to something like clirke21s setup with the cassette 4-track.

Its not fully touch, so not that good for portable useage but ableton live lite and MPC2.0 software did come free with my MPD218 so they might be a good option for recording live instrumentation with long audiotracks.

 

@clirke21:

 

I always thought about getting a Boss-BR800 digital 8-track because of the portability factor. It is small, I could record my electronic backing tracks made in renoise, sunvox or milkytracker ( or a combination of all of them ) into it and have multiple tracks left for harmonized guitar solos and live percussion.

It all seemed like a great idea but then I realized there is no way to 'nudge' audio back and forth. So if I were to record milkytracker, for example, track by track, maybe through a minikaosspad2 for extra movement and human feel I wouldn't be able to line up the recorded tracks properly afterwards.

For this reason I feel like cubasis is currently the best option for that portable 8-track kind of requirement. But I'm waiting for it to come out on windows. I cant stand apple anymore. Maybe I will be waiting forever?

 

boss_br800_8-track_digital_recorder_-_fr

 

@encryptedmind :

 

I'm not really sold on the sounds of the DR880. I can see how they would come in handy. I would want them as a samplepack but I couldnt really justify buying the hardware for the DR880 soundset showcased in the following video:

 

 

The Alesis SR18 sounds a little better to me although still quite 'stadium rock'. I like the look of the layout of the pads for 'keyboard' style finger drumming though. Much like the layout of the pads on my VestaxPadOne. if anything is built like a tank it is the vestax PadOne...and if the price is $35, how can you argue? Why not download Alesis SR18 and DR880 sample packs and go to town in renoise with all the sounds of both machines, larger backlit pads with probably about the same level of sensitivity as dr880 and more sequencer functionality? Thrifty.

 

 

maxresdefault.jpg



#46 random

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 01:48

google has just as microsft initially missed on android, audio, a funtional multimedia function, i think that will change. (audio works today on windows fine)

at apple, ios, audio works, unfortunately, apple can do whatever they want, the fans take everything uncritically, at some point it seems normal, other companies, move on
microsoft is being questioned much harder and more critical. (planned online forced at the xbox one, key locker at windows 10 and so on)

 

apart from that, with all restrictions, you got in many points right

I currently hold an ipad (second hand, not new) in price performance audio for the most effective what you can buy at the time.


Edited by random, 28 January 2018 - 01:56.


#47 lettuce

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 02:13

I know what you mean, the audio is good on all of the operating systems.

 

I am talking about audiotracks.

 

Like recording long takes of real instruments. You know, multitracking like a 4-track instead of just shorter recordings (samples), like in renoise.

 

If you already have an ipad Cubasis looks like a great program for audiotracks.

 

Audiotracks...multitrack recordings. Like in the picture of cubasis below:

 

09_cb2_tempo_match_factory_loops.jpg


Edited by lettuce, 28 January 2018 - 02:14.


#48 clirke21

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 09:50

@lettuce: Have you ever considered using Reaper? Again, you can rewire Renoise and program fluent patterns alongside long recordings of guitar...and you can move things around, too (you'd have to record the Renoise patterns for that or move the patterns around within Renoise). It's cheap and simple + you can test it for 60 days with all the functionality. 


Edited by clirke21, 28 January 2018 - 09:51.


#49 Renoised

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 14:39

@Clirke, lol, well at least you kept it longer than I kept the Volca Sample :lol:
Regards cassette multi-tracks, for me there's only one logical progression from a 4-track cassette machine, that being an 8-track cassette machine!

@Wangboi, I'd stay well away from that BR-800 if I were you, fucking awefull machine.  A few years back a friend of mine bought a BOSS BR-800 and a ZOOM R8 with the intention of keeping the best and returning the other.  There was no contest, he kept the R8 and returned the BR-800.  I got to borrow both for a couple of days while he had them and I came to the same conclusion pretty damn quick.  Unless you absolutely need four simultaneous inputs, the ZOOM R8 is a far better machine in every respect.  The R8 has a sampler, resampler, programmable drum-machine, a drum and sample sequencer, and can also be played live by the built-in sample-pads.  Having that lot built-into an 8-track recorder allows you to do some really neat stuff.  Like using recordings as samples that can then be sequenced or played live, or you can turn your performance and sequences into files that can run either as audio tracks, samples, or both.  The Sampler is 8-voice polyphonic.  You can create loops and do resampling, merging them with multi-track recordings or whatever you like to create new samples and new recordings.  There's no stupid cable hacks needed to do that, either, it's all bult in.

The BR-800 is more expensive than the R8, yet the R8 is years ahead of the BR-800 in what it can do.  Read the user manual for a Zoom R8 and you'll realise how powerful it is.  I never bought one even after trying them, wasn't financially viable for me at the time, but I would definitely love to have one, and the sampling and sample-sequencing function on it is good enough I'm actually considering one right now against the possibility of an AKAI MPX16.  They're both very different machines for different purposes, but the R8 is a very versatile machine, a sort of jack-of-all-trades.

The Zoom R8 also has all-physical controls, none of that touch-sensisive bullshit the BR-800 uses:

 

r8_bigSlant_0.png?itok=U1Gqy6WJ


Edited by Renoised, 28 January 2018 - 14:44.

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#50 clirke21

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 15:12

@Renoised: I thought you wanted to keep the Volca Sample? And yeah, I'll probably get an 8-track at some point, perhaps with some MIDI-features..Unless I get bored of cassette recorders, but I love the vibe of them..It's quite different from recording stuff in Reaper...Can't wait to combine it with Renoise somehow.

 

By R8, I thought you were talking about the Roland R8 drum machine. On that note, I've heard it's quite an interesting machine. From what I've heard, it's got some weird "error"-feature to make it sound more human. Autechre used it on Flutter and other stuff. 808 State, too. Has anybody here used it?

 

On the real R8: I was eye-ing those as well before I got the cassette multi-track. Same with the Boss-unit, but it doesn't have the same feel to it, I think. When I read it had a sampler I got really excited, but then I did some research and realized it's not what I imagined it to be (thought one could just get a drummachine and control the sampler in the unit like a real one, then record guitar at the same time and sync it all via MIDI..how awesome that would be! All in one..the only thing missing would've been the strings)...The predecessor unit has MIDI tho (the HD16), but it's still not the real deal in terms of what I was fantasizing about. Just my thoughts on it.


Edited by clirke21, 28 January 2018 - 15:27.






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