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#51 encryptedmind

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:15

khan.jpg >>>>> The Mongolian Dude, always wins! Always.

Ya I use his example in my debates with my mom. I tell her I was born on the day and month Alexander the Great was, was born a caesarean like Julius Caesar, and am from the Asian and Mongoloid stock from Upper and Central Asia like Ghengis Khan, which makes me the MOST POWERFUL baby in the world (sleeps at his mom's feet curled up like a mole with smooth velvet skin).


@lettuce , you cracked me up real bad, hahaha

Erykah Badu live for New York Times, done with just a keyboard, a bass synth and 2 MPC 4000s(I suppose). Very tight and very Neo Soul. She is the Queen of Neo Soul and it's one very private performance video that I like.

https://youtu.be/_WNNOrnl5Og


Even Tibetian monks are renowned for throat singing and polyphony.

https://youtu.be/L42AnSAdzXw

Edited by encryptedmind, 05 February 2018 - 09:22.

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#52 encryptedmind

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:20

Or had...long time before us & we are now continuing the journey; one of my All Time favourite Musicians:
https://www.youtube....h?v=UTORd2Y_X6U

Great minds think alike. Time is irrelevant here, it's art we are talking about. All great musicians somehow reach the same conclusion one way or the other. It's like they all end up on the same hallway regardless of where they began,must be a great conversation starter for them getting stuck with one another, they must be jamming for eternity with that kind of class, and they must be exchanging notes too.


BTW does anyone out here even know about Hector Zazou and is familiar with his works? Collaboration with Katie Jane Garside or his Indian classical ambient masterpiece Zannat? Care to share some thoughts on his style of composition and production. His range is super diverse and he is a maestro in electronics production.

Edited by encryptedmind, 05 February 2018 - 19:47.

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#53 El°HYM

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:10

As history tells us Mr. Khan kept his Bloodline clean & made sure it would spread around the Globe...http://www.iflscienc...d-genghis-khan/

Ya I use his example in my debates with my mom. I tell her I was born on the day and month Alexander the Great was, was born a caesarean like Julius Caesar, and am from the Asian and Mongoloid stock from Upper and Central Asia like Ghengis Khan, which makes me the MOST POWERFUL baby in the world (sleeps at his mom's feet curled up like a mole with smooth velvet skin).


 


Edited by El°HYM, 05 February 2018 - 12:10.


#54 Renoised

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 15:10

Sorry, but the girl with the chainsaw is much more formidable ^_^ 

 



#55 El°HYM

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 15:17

The-Rake-Jean-Paul-Belmondo-00005.jpg



#56 encryptedmind

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 19:49



Vox video analysing JDilla's beats on MPC3000. Kool graphics and presentation, history in a nutshell.
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#57 Renoised

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 01:10

Never had much interest in the MPC range, but nice to hear some history, and about the dude who never used Quantize.  Makes me think of a feature on the CASIO SK-1 called One-Key-Play.  I really like the idea cause it allows you to record something in real or step-time, then you can play it back a note at a time just by tapping either of the two One-Key-Play buttons at whatever timing you feel comfortable with.  It's a great way to be able to play absolutely anything you like without making a mistake and without the need for quantization, so your performance is always perfectly human when you use it, cause technically, you're still playing it live.

I reckon it's something that should be pretty much standard on all gear that records MIDI performance, and I always thought it odd that it isn't as common on such equipment as the Record button itself.

 


Edited by Renoised, 06 February 2018 - 01:11.

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#58 El°HYM

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:38

That Sk-1 is another way underated Gem....you have one of those?

 

About Dilla, he mostly let them hats loose, also the off beat kiks, yet somehow hiphop dj's had to mix those tracks, too...so 1,3 kick might be pretty on point, as same as snare's more tight than loose...all in all it is a legacy he left us, with his programming and playing the drums; also keep in mind that dude played those hats whole way thru the song, to get his feel. I love Dilla, just a great inspiration  :drummer:


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#59 Renoised

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:35

That Sk-1 is another way underated Gem....you have one of those?


Sadly, no, but it's been on my list of wants for some time, so I'll get one eventually  :walkman: 
It's iconic now, a piece of history that sold in it's millions, so no rush in finding one.

 


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#60 El°HYM

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:08

Another one on Dilla & those magical Drums....from a Drummers perspective  :drummer: Happy Bornday!!



#61 encryptedmind

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:38

That Sk-1 is another way underated Gem....you have one of those?

About Dilla, he mostly let them hats loose, also the off beat kiks, yet somehow hiphop dj's had to mix those tracks, too...so 1,3 kick might be pretty on point, as same as snare's more tight than loose...all in all it is a legacy he left us, with his programming and playing the drums; also keep in mind that dude played those hats whole way thru the song, to get his feel. I love Dilla, just a great inspiration :drummer:

To me it was a welcome change especially after 20 years of listening to electronic music albums and artists who were pretty much White and quantized, from Kraftwerk to Deep Forest, to Outhere Brothers to Omegavibes, all of Chicago and UK house, German trance, gabber, Depeche Mode to Massive Attack, trip hop to DnB and the whole subgenres of techo. They all use quantized drums excluding live played or sampled ones. Even Aphex and Squarepusher or Autechre use sequences drums regardless of how they build their own tools doing it. In the early days this made sense since computers were much slower or means supportive of live finger drumming type data entry unless midi was involved in some way and when all the early drum sequencers hit the dance community they were not using 909 and 808 with their rompler sound kits as today's Maschine or MPC cos they were not too well used outside the hip hop community, and even there things were sequenced. You already see Dilla's no quantize style of drummer and track development means he kept humanize feel a top priority almost to the point of being rebellious about it. If he was not a kick ass producer he would have been an outstanding jazz person for real, his version of swing and timing and his lyrical sampling qualities and exceptional ear for building a mosaic into a mural is astounding. Not sure of ANY White electronic band ever used non quantize. Possibly only Bjork does something truly innovative on these lines because her vocals are just out of this world and she also does her own arrangements and compositions, one gifted woman, and she is loved both by the mainstream and the underground and she has gained both critical and commercial success, starred in her own movies and videos, stage shows and tours and platinum albums and hit singles..her genre is difficult to pin point. Icelandic electronic music? Still most of her work uses sequenced drums too, just swaps the usual 'expected' samples for alternative sounds or field recordings..

'Venus as a Boy' is my all time favourite Bjork track, it's enigmatic and no one knows what is it about ('lesbian love'? Maybe she wishes Venus to transform to a man and penetrate (even creatively too) her becos she is a woman...not sure).

https://youtu.be/J1Rd7zrvW7k

Edited by encryptedmind, 10 February 2018 - 00:43.

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#62 Renoised

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 23:43

Bjork puts out a whole bunch of unusual stuff, that's for sure.

 

Not sure what genre I'd put her under though, she probably deserves her own genre, 'Bjork', cause I don't know any other artist that produces the sort of stuff she does no matter how hard I try.  There's a lot of unusual artists out there, but their music still falls under a genre near enough, so I know what you mean, her's kinda doesn't.


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#63 El°HYM

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 20:45

Bjoerk makes #Liquoricepop


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#64 Man

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 22:06

Thanks everyone, I have a lot to think/read about.


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#65 encryptedmind

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 00:56

Yo it seems they put out a children's book out too to teach children about Dilla, one of the positive repurcusssions of this is that more children will learn about Dilla Dawg/James Yancey early in their lives exploring his music and also get into Beatmaking and positive hip hop potentially. Looking forward to buying this, cos I am still a kid.

https://www.google.c...drens-book/amp/

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/1623561833

I read this one very recently actually, came out in 2014 though, Donuts is a music criticism book and biography of Dilla and it's very well written expounding upon his last album Donuts (named after his favorite snack food) before his death which consists of a rather disjointed set of a minute and half long instrumental beats that in his own words 'are instrumentals rappers don't know how to rap over but want to'. Interesting thing his mom quoted in the book interview that Dilla used to sleep to jazz music every single day and would not sleep without it, which makes all the more clear where that off kilter swing comes from, he must have listened to great drummers like Buddy Rich and pianists like Art Tatum and Buddy Bolden intently to constantly imbibe that jazz vibe so well that when it came to hip hop he made it his own,very unique and inspirational:) His closest friends said that he already had the beat figured out and constructed in his head before he even got down to the MPC, he also himself said he never read the user manuals and just liked to explore the machine. ...


http://333sound.com/...video-oddities/


The publisher of this book. Bloomsbury Academic also has a catalogue of similar album inspired short books, worth checking it out. Their website has a lot of interesting articles and regarding Bjork a rather intriguing and entertaining one is the link above.

Edited by encryptedmind, 10 February 2018 - 01:11.

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#66 Man

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:33

How about this one?

http://www.chordwizard.com/theory.aspx

I really need to go back to the basics, start from zero.



#67 El°HYM

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:08

Another forum, same topic...the guy mos def knows something, yet also has the well known 'I have seen it & kno iT All & Got the T-Shirt' - Mentality, so many in these days having on the anonymous i - net. Anyway, he does give sum good info & tips, if u have the consistence to read thru his s#replies. I do kind of agree, that depending on how deep you get & how long you have studied Music - Theory, iT can also be #limiting at first, instead of trying to naturally expressing yourself & to get creative;

 

iTs like a thin line here. Normally I would say in the end: “Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” Pablo Picasso

 

http://www.idmforums...ad.php?t=149023


Edited by El°HYM, 16 February 2018 - 11:18.


#68 Man

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 14:10

Another thing though : never have I read about drum programming or rhythm regarding the topic of music theory, it's always chords and chord progressions.  That kinda gets to me, I don't intend to use chords in my music, just simple melodies.

Theory always seems limiting to me, unless you decide to always break its rules, but is that a good enough reason to learn it?

 

Here's an example of something I whipped up today.  Where are the chords?  Where's the theory in this?

https://clyp.it/y5xe4m1d#


Edited by Man, 16 February 2018 - 14:39.

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#69 El°HYM

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 15:14

Basically #chords are also Melodies, depending on how you play them out. As far, as #drums go; me remembering James Brown letting his Drummer(s) play in the Key of G# ...which juz seems like another musical legend, after watching this great interview.

Another thing though : never have I read about drum programming or rhythm regarding the topic of music theory, it's always chords and chord progressions.  That kinda gets to me, I don't intend to use chords in my music, just simple melodies.

Theory always seems limiting to me, unless you decide to always break its rules, but is that a good enough reason to learn it?

 

Here's an example of something I whipped up today.  Where are the chords?  Where's the theory in this?

https://clyp.it/y5xe4m1d#


Edited by El°HYM, 16 February 2018 - 15:26.


#70 Man

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 15:48

Basically #chords are also Melodies, depending on how you play them out. As far, as #drums go; me remembering James Brown letting his Drummer(s) play in the Key of G# ...which juz seems like another musical legend, after watching this great interview.

" ... coz' you don't know what you're doing anyway!" - Clyde Stubblefield

LMAO

Seems like they didn't know too much theory either.

Just making up stuff as you go along, I love that stuff.



#71 El°HYM

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 15:53

well, depends most of those old school funk drummerz, coming straight from the Jazz Era & are surely very well skilled in their Art.

Might not have studied #Drums @ Berklee, though  :drummer:

" ... coz' you don't know what you're doing anyway!" - Clyde Stubblefield

LMAO

Seems like they didn't know too much theory either.

Just making up stuff as you go along, I love that stuff.


Edited by El°HYM, 16 February 2018 - 15:54.


#72 Man

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 16:05

https://clyp.it/4eos40hw

 

Well I kinda fibbed when I said I didn't use any melodies, this is me just not knowing what I'm doing ...


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#73 TheBellows

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 17:50

I did never learn proper music theory, but that's probably why i make weird music. I have been tracking for more than 20 years to and fro, so i have of course learned something on the way, but i can't even properly read sheets of notes. 

People make music in the jungle too, you definately don't have to know music theory to make music, but it can help you make what you want to make instead of fumbling in the dark to find the rare gems deep in the jungle of rythm, chords and melodies. I like fumbling in the dark though, that's a bit what makes it exciting and challenging for myself. If i knew all the time exactly what to do, then i would probably get bored with it very soon.


Edited by TheBellows, 16 February 2018 - 17:52.

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#74 Man

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 18:39

I did never learn proper music theory, but that's probably why i make weird music. I have been tracking for more than 20 years to and fro, so i have of course learned something on the way, but i can't even properly read sheets of notes. 

People make music in the jungle too, you definately don't have to know music theory to make music, but it can help you make what you want to make instead of fumbling in the dark to find the rare gems deep in the jungle of rythm, chords and melodies. I like fumbling in the dark though, that's a bit what makes it exciting and challenging for myself. If i knew all the time exactly what to do, then i would probably get bored with it very soon.

Yeah I can't really make what I want to make, I just start with some samples and some improvisation and see what comes out at the end of the tunnel.  It's frustrating sometimes but mostly I'm having fun because it's relatively easy to come up with highly original music.

On the other hand, becoming a serious musician shouldn't really be about "having fun", it should be about producing a product that sells and that's popular, sad but true.

I wish I could remain an underground producer but I guess I'll have to learn to let go a bit and learn new things.

 

I like your song btw, reminds me of Aphex Twin's music.


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#75 lettuce

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 19:46

Music theory is not so bad as long as you have a chart in front of you while doing electronic / computer music.

You dont have to have it memorized but I think its good to know what key your bass drum sample fits with and work in a key which compliments the bass drum. But breaking away from the 'rules' of the scale your working in can sound cool and bring in an evil or mysterious feeling. Even music theory in the sense of how you have your LFOs set up, are they strictly in time and on beat or do they drift and go out of time while still sounding cool..that kind of stuff.

 

Also knowing what scales have each certain feeling. Radian was explaining phrygian dominant to me while back. That is a cool scale. Its always going to sound quite metal, quite evil but mysterious.

 

The pentatonic scales always sound quite 'zen', like a japanese garden or a 'spirit forest' or something.

 

Game music designers must rely on that kind of knowledge of the 'feelings' of scales when they get their brief. How do you write a piece for 'kirby in dreamland' vs 'resident evil'?..there is pressure and they will be expected to write quickly too. So not much time for really feeling out a song by trial and error or writing by ear.

 

Also, if an electronic musician can play the keyboard live and knows all the fingerings for scales and chords, they can write a piece of music 20 times faster than someone who only step sequences.

 

I'd say music theory is important in the sense that it will save a lot of time in writing apiece start to finish.

 

One thing I really would like to know more about is song structure.

How to make an arrangement that builds properly, drops properly, has breakdowns in the right places, scratching in the right place, vocal samples at the right time. How should the drum sound grow and become more and more layered and powerful. Where to keep it simple, where to include big harmonies. Thinking about how people would move to it.


Edited by lettuce, 16 February 2018 - 20:12.