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Renoise and the demoscene


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#1 encryptedmind

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 19:35

( mod edit: split off from Radium thread )


This was as an inquiry to the current state of affairs, nothing more..

Given the amount of 'experience' with Renoise over here I would like to know if any Renoiser participated or won a music compo in any one of the following Demoparties? Also this year is full of such events (as usual) so I am intrigued as to how many Renoisers are actually participating or visiting the Demoparties listed out for 2018? This info will also let me know how things are done over at those venues, since I am making this year a Demoparty year for me and I want to visit the best ones or the most musically relevant ones. ReVision seems to be the largest one no doubt.

If there are any past winners maybe you can share some pointers as to your experience with the music file creation and the various MOD/S3M/IT file tips from a Renoise perspective. Also if there are any FastTracker 2 users who use it daily I would like to know your thoughts on it from a Renoise perspective. I feel homemade parties are ok but participating in one of these events should be the actual highlight because the majority of the community comes alive there, is not it? These are the venues that set the stage for what we have a long standing digital subculture, in fact Renoise itself would not be there without the scene. I am sure there are some dedicated sceners that lurk here too, so if so kindly type something :) Also from my own perspective I would be the first Indian to ever participate in a Demoparty to the best of my knowledge which makes me a suave unicorn over here and there (personal milestone btw). Never been to Russia and I am excited to be back to Berlin/Amsterdam/Cologne with this in mind.

Many of you guys live in Germany and Berlin, BCC Party #12 just got over, if there were any Renoisers what was your experience like?

January

january, 4th - 6th DiHalt 2018 Lite Nizhny Novgorod

january, 19th - 20th SyncroNY 2018 February

february, 2nd - 4th Demobit 2018 Bratislava Slovakia

february, 2nd - 4th AmiParty XXII Chełm

february, 2nd - 4th Gerp 2018 Skövde culture centre

february, 23rd - 25th BCC Party #12 Berlin March

march, 1st - 4th Instanssi 2018 Jyväskylä

march, 16th - 18th Forever 2018 Horná Súča

march, 30th - april, 2nd Revision 2018 Saarbrücken May

may, 10th - 13th Outline 2018 Willemsoord

may, 25th - 27th Simulaatio 8 Joroinen June

june, 9th - 10th SwitchOn 2 Ipswitch, Queensland

june, 15th - 17th Silesia 9 Tychy

june, 22nd - 24th NOVA 18 Budleigh Salterton, Devon

june, 29th - july, 1st Gubbdata 2018 Lund




COUNTRY DATE TITLE July

july, 5th - 8th My Summer Party 2018 Jämijärvi

july, 6th - 8th Sommarhack Grådö, Hedemora, Dalarna, Sweden

july, 13th - 15th Solskogen 2018 Flateby, Akershus August

august, 3rd - 5th DATASTORM 2018 Gothenburg

august, 17th - 19th Evoke 2018 Cologne, NRW

august, 24th - 26th Jumalauta 18 years Hauho

august, 31st - september, 2nd Riverwash 2018 Warszawska, Katowice October

october, 31st - november, 2nd Pre-X 2018 Amsterdam November

november, 2nd - 4th X 2018 Someren

Edited by encryptedmind, 06 March 2018 - 09:08.
Split off from Radium thread

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#2 encryptedmind

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:07

Also no one in the any of the well established market places or ANY publishers(Elsevier, Hal Leonard, Focal Press etc) I contacted have ANY interests in Renoise at all, which means they don't care. Not surprisingly I was 'wrongly' interested in doing a book on this, but now I have all the best reasons in the world not too. So stay uncared for buggers :) This part of the world is best left undiscovered so that the 'majority' of the populace stay safe from this ridiculous forums filled with 95% noob babblings where a simple sentence being put together is a highly improbable thing('long posts, you gotta be kidding, with grammer and all??Eruditeness has resulted in sublimation..'). And to think of it my Kids would hang out with this sort, hell no. Like a nude resort filled with freaks and unlaid buggers, it's best to be simply forgotten about.

You see the best the best part of hanging out in the hacking and malware and underground forums as well as places like StackOverfloe or even Reddit, is that any one over there can mine 'intelligence' and cross reference information. It's a huge difference when we discover a new botnet or exploit pack or try to sinkhole a new set of ips etc...we also end up doing a service to ourselves by keeping a track of things and helping out other intelligence teams do their shit..

Out here its just 'mining stupidity', not intelligence. Get it? Blokes like me hang out here just for killing time, very much similar to visiting a local shopping mall and visiting the toilet and pissing over there in the bathroom on the pee bowl, so my job is not to clean anything but rather express my conveniences.


Breakpoint Festival got closed down many years back btw, and one sentence I like about their reason, 'we are getting old'. That is pretty much the reason why turds like you exist. When was the last time you took part in a proper Demoscene compo in Revision, Assembly, Evoke and others eh?

And why is no one is able to answer my question on Demoscene participation? I surmise becos there ain't many at all and it's no way a representation of how things are in the real world..

When we hang out with our types we work towards a presentation or paper or a project or N number of open source codes and research etc, what goes on her3?? All this useless chit chat over a 68 euro software used by by an aging demographic who rarely ever particupate where the real action and legacy is..

I actually feel relieved when I read all those Demoparty media that the word 'Renoise' does-knot even exist...phew, at least I can safely consider what is irrelevant, becos now this pathetic attempts of creating a debacle for me, simply evaporate into nothingness..


EDIT: I am on Quora for the past few years apart from underground forums, and I was looking to check out some music based digital subculture forumz that is all. Outstanding experience over there given that it's a very successful and 'widely known' digital QnA place. Just to make a point here, some posts over at Quora go to a books length, just the nature of us guys btw..and we really seem to care about it, mostly cos we can! Also we are the majority..

Last time I checked:

"In March of 2016 Adam D'Angelo stated[1] that Quora had 100 million monthly active users worldwide. That was up from 80 million in 2015."

Quora Alexa rank 134. Renoise.com rank 238,516...long shot by a mile.

Renoise.com major demographic USA, UK, Germany,Czech and Sweden. 20% each for USA and UK.

Judging by the tone and 'thought merit' of whatever passes for posts here, excluding Germany(cos I luv it so much) and Sweden, I strongly suspect that these asinine posts keep coming from the land of Trump. But that part is sorted, I genuinely don't like USA as many other folks I know for a TON of reasons..so have fun while I(and the world) watch USA burn..(to @dblue before he uses his 'fine-toothed comb filter:: not hate speech in ANY way)

Personal note to myself : Victor you are peeing on the wrong tree, even if others might be barking at the wrong one.. LMFAO

Renoise as a software in isolation is fine though.
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#3 MattD

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 23:12

You could try a search like this: https://duckduckgo.c...y&ia=web&fexp=b or like this: https://duckduckgo.c...ns)&t=hy&ia=web

 

This is not going to be exhaustive. I think most of the parties do post results in some form, but it's not always easy to tell what was used.

 

Incidentally, Google did a pretty crap job with the same search.


KernUo9.png


#4 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 01:05

So you contacted Elsevier ' if they were interested in Renoise ???? ( no kiddiing ..;) 

And why would you do a book on renoise , there's a manual already .

Some things you don't know about the forum , because you're relatively new and already have a reputation 

          

Yes , there were some demosceners ..but most of them left ..some came back ..under a new alias etc ....MaYbe not ..who knows

 

Just stay humble , and stop the bragging ....

I agree that this forum has become a sewer ,...


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THERE IS NO RELIGION SUPERIOR TO THE TRUTH


THERE IS NO TRUTH SUPERIOR TO THE ONE I CHOOSE

C'EST MIEUX D'ETRE BELLE ET REBELLE


QUE MOCHE ET REMOCHE



RUBIO RABIA

 


#5 encryptedmind

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:50

@MattD: Thanks for using search engine primitives and posting links for the same. I used Google casually and then thought about asking first here if I can cross reference the results. I will save all the files and make a note of the participants and their whereabouts etc..good for research.

@gentleclockdivider: Thanks mate, I see you are a forum senior yourself, so you would be one of those with a deeper idea of how the Demoscene relationship is with Renoise users. About the book, yes, I did reach out and its not going to stop anytime soon, as I am looking for a reputed publisher who has a distribution channel they can manage. The user manual is for new users and us folks who have that natural inclination to fall in love with bytes and techical aptitude to work with such interfaces. Many others however will be most certainly intimidated with trackers and won't be able to appreciate what it can do, the speed of workflow, the streamlined design, the extensive use of samples and so on. This would take some explanation and that effort should greatly pay off.

Two immediate benefits I am looking forward to:

1) Market presence as a published item. This will bring audience credibility, audience introduction to trackers and the Demoscene legacy, knowledge dissemination for interested parties and will aim to work as an excellent starting point for new comers or musicians from other genres who use traditional DAW software. The main benefit is the use of a commercial distribution channel like Amazon, where any one can type 'trackers' or 'Renoise' and find a published text book that provides some semblance of a well edited and proof read manuscript that provides both historical context and technical instruction, especially in a wider context taking electronic music styles as the primary driver for teaching construction and deconstruction of a track and facilitating deeper understanding of the genres and their production styles.

2) As a stepping stone to more in-depth or interesting themed publications so that young kids, preteens and young adults start taking a more formal interest in music technology and learn about this without having to overtly or accidently 'discover' this part of the world and having that easy access and means to educate themselves will lower the bar and make things more popular as it should be. If hacking and malware analysis have a published market presence and these started with the underground scenes, no doubt with the amount of material available on offer from the Demoscene legacy and the amount of music churned out by the community, a more mainstream approach to information dissemination should certainly work for the long term. Making a quick buck is not the goal here, and the underground approach has worked out so far very well in terms of preserving the scene culture.

So essentially the more we publish the more collectively reach more people and use that as a marketing incentive too, while making things more easily accessible and little more mainstream.


If the Demoscene is indeed getting older and newer teens are caught up on watching TV or playing NES all day then well it's upto guys like us who have the incentive, are still young and love tracking to do something about it. Lots to learn and from the thousands of tracker format files which are archived and many which are on labels, it's a goldmine of underground culture from which I aim to pullout the best technical tips and tricks for the contemporary audience.

Currently I am using all the trackers I can find and make extensive notes from various scene mags and existing formats files to take out their construction techniques and also in parallel learn about each tracker tool. This will help me gain historical perspective, for which I have to use emulators and older machines as well. I need to spend more time doing this research and tracking both side by side. Lua scripting for Renoise came somewhere along the way very recently around the 2011 period, so for now I should first get the previous milestone sorted, Lua scripting can take a backseat. Most important thing is to master tracking tools, learn as much history as one can, track music and build a personal archive of techniques for each available tracker (or most of them, the best of the bunch) and work with that research to write a good quality manuscript. The goal is also not to take 15 years to do all this, so prioritization and time management is very important. I will find a good press to do the final honors.

If any of you have good suggestions about the publishing route or ideas please forward them here in this thread.

EDIT: Me is going to be a humble and cute kitten who loves Renoise :)(meow)

This forum has tons of potential with an already active community and loads of highly intelligent and qualified folks who both run it and participate in it. Nothing to feel negative about in anyway, let's all just keep doing the best we can and keep moving things forward.


Edited by encryptedmind, 07 March 2018 - 16:29.

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#6 danoise

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 14:26

I agree that this forum has become a sewer ,...

 

Unless of course, that you're looking for actual tips or help on how to use Renoise happy.png


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#7 encryptedmind

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 15:58

Including that too no doubt.
 

Unless of course, that you're looking for actual tips or help on how to use Renoise happy.png

forum
ˈfɔːrəm/
noun
noun: forum; plural noun: forums; plural noun: fora
1.
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"
synonyms: meeting, assembly, gathering, conference, seminar, convention, colloquy, convocation, congress, rally, council, symposium, conclave, congregation, synod, diet;caucus;

informalget-together;
rarecolloquium

"forums were held for staff to air grievances and make suggestions"
setting, place, scene, context, stage, framework, backdrop;
medium, means, agency, channel, avenue, vehicle, mechanism, apparatus, auspices
"the UN could provide a valuable forum for discussions"

 

an Internet site where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings.


Edited by encryptedmind, 07 March 2018 - 16:01.

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#8 Cie

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 17:48

Hello,

 

first I would like to encourage you to visit such a demo party. It is awesome to visit one, and it is even more awesome to visit one and to contribute with something in a competition. I think that is one of the spirit of the scene; share and contribute.

 

I have contributed to a lot of parties in the mp3/tracked/other compos with music. The last party was the Evoke 2017. I contributed to the pc demo and general music competition. Every track, excluded the special protracker compos etc., 100% made with Renoise. If you like you can see the pc demo here:

https://cables.gl/p/...da24a6c237fc594 (Browser Chrome needed)

 

If you like to take part in a music compos, before contributing, it is important to read the rules. When contributing in the MP3 compos, it is easy, no special rules except played track length. But e.g. Protracker-Compo, the track must be playable with Protracker - well makes sense because you should make it on the original Amiga software or on an emulation. 

However, you also should keep in mind that the music competitions, especially the MP3, is one of the most popular, with loads of entries. So there will be a preselection (limit varies from 10-20) of entries to be played. The rest will be ignored (however, you can use the ignored track in another party)...

So as a musician it is even a success to pass the preselection and take part in the competition and that the played to the audience on the big sound system.

Personally I never won something, but for me that is not the aim. 

 

Renoise is well known in the demo scene; especially to musicians using trackers. If you go across the party you will see people using Renoise on their pc's. So the best way to find out how many people are using Renoise, is to visit a party and get in touch with the other musicians there...

 

PS: This was a short answer because of time problems.


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#9 encryptedmind

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 23:07

@Cie: Thank you so much for your insights and description of the event and your experience. I must of course visit as many Demoparties as I feasibly can. Also using ProTracker will be a top agenda for me now. Evoke must be really fun if you visited it so many times :)

One thing I need to ask you since you have so much experience in such parties: do you find women who use trackers or make demos over there? Or do they have some other roles like event ushers or models for music parties like dancers or emcees etc?

Secondly for team participation in one track submission or solo submission, which ones do you prefer most?

Happy to know Renoise is well liked around there:)))))))


Edit: I was browsing through your profiles on AMP and Pouet and saw that your first entry goes back to 1996 so that is 20+ years of tracking, cool!
Am listening to your MODs and will take a good look at them. Cool tunes:)

Edited by encryptedmind, 08 March 2018 - 00:36.

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#10 encryptedmind

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 00:43

Found this nice and cute site on trackers, many of us already know it but for research purposes, it's really nice to have someone else do the cataloguing for you.

https://trackerbase....20466099197&m=1

Edited by encryptedmind, 08 March 2018 - 00:44.

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#11 encryptedmind

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 21:06

Finally a beautiful female who uses trackers and is not invisible ;



ProTracker instructional vids by Wasp are very well done. Sample offset video is cool and so are the others.



Scoopex the famous Amiga Demoscene guys also have a channel that is obvious new to me but essential for general knowledge.



Some great publications having Demoscene as the focus in terms of historical context and legacy. Nothing technical though.

https://fusionretrob...a-in-pixels_pdf

A book on the Demoscene : 'Hacking Europe: From computer cultures to the
Demoscene ' (2014) written by two college professors who obviously have no experience tracking music or writing shaders but more of an academic literature tracing the history based on essays by various writers many of whom may be direct participants and pioneers of the scene. This should be read by everyone here since no one has spoken about it yet. Maybe share some thoughts, maybe some old timers still here.

https://www.amazon.c...MZzL&ref=plSrch

Another book, 'Demoscene:Art of Realtime'

https://www.amazon.c...NGKL&ref=plSrch

'Freakx : The brief history of the computer Demoscene '
(2005)

https://www.amazon.c...words=demoscene


Microzeit.com published some books on the Demoscene of the golden era Atari ST scene users. 'Breakin the borders' (2017)

https://www.amazon.c...words=demoscene
http://www.microzeit.com
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#12 encryptedmind

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 21:38

To put in perspective, books on Beatmaking and hip hop are equally non ubiquitous and mostly academic history oreinted. Hip hop and the beatacene is more commercially established nonetheless which makes it less anonymous. The new microzeit publisher is entirely crowdfunded and I like his brutally honest way of looking at things:

"Crowddfunding allows me to realize complex niche books, which renowned publishers would hardly ever publish...."


Personal opinion: In future robot art and music and entertainment might very well take over as market saturated products making creation a every algorithmoc market. We should have some fun while the 'market' still lasts.

Beattips manual by Amir Sa'id

https://www.amazon.c...-40L&ref=plSrch


Making Beats:Art of sample based Hip Hop by Joseph Schloss.

https://www.amazon.c...MFAFNMTETRS9G28

Turntable technique:Art of the DJ (Berklee Press)

https://www.amazon.c...urntablism book

Groove Music:Art and culture of the Hip Hop DJ

https://www.amazon.c...urntablism book


World of DJs and turntable culture (Hal Leonard)

https://www.amazon.c...JwTL&ref=plSrch


Dj Skills :The essential guide to mixing and scratching

https://www.amazon.c...miIL&ref=plSrch

Engaging Students with Music Education: DJ decks, urban music and child-centred learning

https://www.amazon.c...xpNL&ref=plSrch

Hip-Hop Turntablism, Creativity and Collaboration (Ashgate Popular and Folk Music Series)(Routledge Press)

https://www.amazon.c...LqxL&ref=plSrch

Edited by encryptedmind, 25 March 2018 - 19:33.

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#13 lettuce

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:33

People always think that demoscene uses old computers like amiga and c64...all I'm saying is that demoscene people did use those back in the day, but now they use the most powerful high end computers for their tunes and animations. These days they are into crazy fractals and shit, not just bouncing, scrolling text, colourful screenwipes or whatever.

 

Inque is pretty good at the whole demoscene tune making thing.

If you check out this video, youtube will give you links to loads of other demoscene tunes.

Personally I think many demoscene musicians are very talented but tend to go a bit cheesey on the lead sounds.

 


Edited by lettuce, 23 March 2018 - 02:49.

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#14 encryptedmind

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 19:28

https://woolyss.com/tracking.php

Nice site for tracker infos.
(Mental note for such resources on this thread).
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