Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Make Redux more like Renoise


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 thalamus

thalamus

    Big Daddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cambridge, UK
  • Interests:Sound

Posted 09 April 2018 - 18:24

I would love to ditch Rewire and use Renoise as a VST inside of a host DAW.
  • joule, m.arthur, radian and 2 others like this

#2 m.arthur

m.arthur

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon
  • Interests:EBM, IDM, industrial, radiophonic & beyond

Posted 09 April 2018 - 22:06

I agree.

 

And since Redux is already *identical* to Renoise's Sampler, complete with Modulation sets, Effects Chains and Phrases, really the only thing that's lacking is the actual Tracker / Sequencer. 

 

Routing (as in, more elaborate routing than just the Master out) would be *so* much easier if we didn't have to use Rewire. I mean, rewire works, sure, but the routing setup can be a real PITA when you start using lots of tracks / instruments.


  • pat likes this

old-school industrial music:  dead when i found her

 


#3 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1750 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 10 April 2018 - 09:01

+1

This is how it 'should' have been done, including audio/midi in/out. Redux phrases have never been the best showcase for the power of tracking.

(MIDI out example: use renoise as vsti to trigger another vsti that is hosted in the main DAW. Audio in/out example: Route audio from the main DAW into a Renoise track and mangle it with group effect commands before sending it back)


  • m.arthur, radian and fladd like this

#4 m.arthur

m.arthur

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon
  • Interests:EBM, IDM, industrial, radiophonic & beyond

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:28

(MIDI out example: use renoise as vsti to trigger another vsti that is hosted in the main DAW. Audio in/out example: Route audio from the main DAW into a Renoise track and mangle it with group effect commands before sending it back)

 

Ahhhhh the ability to do the above would be SO damn powerful and effective. Surely the devs can see the potential of this no? Particularly if Renoise itself isn't going to see much development in the future, then going this route makes even more sense, in a way. Let us use what it *can* do along with our other tools, in the most interactive / fluid way possible. 


Edited by m.arthur, 11 April 2018 - 01:28.

old-school industrial music:  dead when i found her

 


#5 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1750 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:52

The biggest conceptual hurdle would be that Renoise VSTi would require some kind of "infinite song" mode. VSTs can't know the duration of a song in the host, but only the position. (for compatibility, exporting an 'infinite song' as .xrns shouldn't be much of a problem)



#6 radian

radian

    Chief Above Chief Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 327 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brighton, UK

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:51

It'd only need to loop through the sequence/order. e.g. RenoiseVSTi has a 16 bar sequence, you skip the host to the 18th bar, RenoiseVSTi plays its 2nd bar.

 

Anyone who wanted more control could assign MIDI to trigger patterns - maybe there could be a quicker way to do this in a hypothetical VSTi version though. (This is also how ReViSiT works, so its kinda a solved problem.)

 

Renoise's maYbe command also adds potential to hide loop-feel.


Edited by radian, 11 April 2018 - 12:53.


#7 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6880 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 11 April 2018 - 13:47

I'm waiting for this topic to gradually grow from a simple suggestion into something far more complex ph34r.png

 

One thing though: IF such a thing was to appear, it would never be called Redux. Just saying :-)


  • radian and fladd like this

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#8 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1750 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Sweden
  • Interests:music, philosophy, engineering

Posted 11 April 2018 - 19:59

I don't think it has to be complex, conceptually or feature wise. It's also not mainly about catering to this or that very specific need, but more about how the Renoise brand could maximize its market share/user base in a hopefully significant way. Renoise VSTi would be more attractive and 'available' than Redux is. The product concept of Redux seems to rely more on the library feature - that never really took off.

 

It seems like a more economically feasible idea than android/ios apps, to my eyes. But perhaps there's a conflict of interest if Illformeds glitch were to be made obsolete in this manner (?).


  • radian likes this

#9 m.arthur

m.arthur

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon
  • Interests:EBM, IDM, industrial, radiophonic & beyond

Posted 11 April 2018 - 21:31

Yeah I'm not sure what danoise is getting at in his post, complex how? You'd like to see more specific descriptors of the desired behavior? I'm with joule that essentially the concept is very simple: RenoiseVST! The main selling point, as he stated, would simply be expanding the usage availability / functionality of the Renoise (complete) engine such that it can work inside other hosts without a need for Rewire. The main focus would be on interconnectivity, as Joule described and I quoted earlier in the thread. I assume the implementation of this could all prove very complex, sure, but I'm not sure what level of complexity we can reach for in this discussion, other than the "wouldn't it be great if....." idea already suggested. But maybe I just lack imagination in the matter! <shrug>


old-school industrial music:  dead when i found her

 


#10 thalamus

thalamus

    Big Daddy Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cambridge, UK
  • Interests:Sound

Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:28

Yes, the perfect situation (for me) would be Renoise being hosted as a VSTi.
Having it recallable with the main project would, I think, be extremely useful.
Im sad to say that I don't find redux of much use due to the clunky nature of triggering phrases via midi. Of course, it does what it is supposed to do very well.. But its not Renoise, which I was (foolishly) hoping it would be.

Edited by thalamus, 12 April 2018 - 07:31.


#11 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6880 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 12 April 2018 - 09:11

Yeah I'm not sure what danoise is getting at in his post, complex how? 

 

I would personally want a lot of handy things for controlling a song - especially control of the timeline. So my "imaginary" RenoiseVSTi would be more than a verbatim copy of Renoise. 

With OSC I could indeed achieve what I wanted. It's just not very common to have OSC embedded in the timeline of DAWs, and the workarounds are finicky. 


Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud