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Sononym - Sample Browser


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Poll: Renoise Group Discount (49 member(s) have cast votes)

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#76 danoise

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 16:48

If I scanned multiple dirs, it would be great if there was a parent node on the top of the dir list, so you can select all dirs at once... Or is this already possible?


Currently, any search is limited to a single library at a time. So, if you had scanned the topmost level you would get results from all folders below.
And in this case, selecting a subfolder would then restrict the search to that folder (and its subfolders), so this is probably what you want to do.

It's not that I don't understand your point, it's a valid one. But joining libraries on the fly is technically a bit hard to realize, so we skipped it for now.

About making the file invisible, this could indeed work on Unix based computers.
But on windows, you are asking for trouble because Explorer really doesn't like files that begin with a .dot
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#77 toimp

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 16:55

If I scanned multiple dirs, it would be great if there was a parent node on the top of the dir list, so you can select all dirs at once... Or is this already possible?

If I do a similarity search while the seconds dir is selected, will Sononym also look then into the first dir, too?

 

Same question for me. I'll have multiple libraries and whern i'm searching for a sample, it should search all libraries.



#78 danoise

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 16:59

@toimp: yes :-) But, see my answer above for why it doesn't.. at least, yet.

But something I forgot to mention (and that could easily be overlooked) is that the similarity source is preserved, carried over as you switch between libraries.
So if your samples are divided into multiple libraries, each one is no further away than a single click..
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#79 toimp

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 17:07

@danoise: Sorry missed this :) The reason why i've more than one library is that these sample folders are on different location. My main sample folder is on D:, Renoise samples are installed on C:. Loopcloud is on another folder on D:, Bitwig ones on C:, too. A global search would be pretty useful for this case.

 

Some Feature ideas:

 

* Hide empty folders in libraries

* Background playback (on/off via option)

* Randomize button, so the results are sorted randomly (check loopcloud)

* Moving the sononym.db somewhere into Appdata (i currently cant add some folders without admin rights are needed for creating these files. Renoise Resources folder for example.)

* Instead of several sononym.db files for each library, what about a single one? So global search would be possible. Or allow us to create a library, where we can add different folders of different locations to it.


Edited by toimp, 13 August 2018 - 18:16.


#80 danoise

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 18:42

Questions? Keep'em coming :)
 

* Hide empty folders in libraries

Empty folders shouldn't show up in libraries. In fact, only folders containing audio should show up.
If you experience something else, this should be considered a bug!
 

* Background playback (on/off via option)

You mean, that playback continues from one to the next when done?
 

* Randomize button, so the results are sorted randomly (check loopcloud)

There is a randomized playback option. It's not shuffling the results but rather, picking a random, non-repeating result from the list.
To make it more interesting it also picks results with a tendency towards "more relevant" results when you have sorted by a category or is performing a similarity search
(in these scenarios, Sononym is more likely to pick results that are higher up the list..)

As for the folders-from-different hard-drives:
I'm not sure how much I should recommend this approach, BUT - we have ensured that Sononym actually has excellent symlink support.
So you could in theory create a special folder somewhere, and create symlinks to your various locations.

I'm hesitant because it always seems a bit like a workaround and even a bit dangerous if you don't know exactly what you are doing.
But I've got a test library that contains content from 3 different drives, and it has worked just fine on my system.

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#81 toimp

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 19:12

Ok, i created a new folder with some junctions. Seems works great. Nice :) This could be a tutorial for your youtube channel.

 

About background playback. When a long sample is played and Sononym lost the focus, it stops the playback.

Never mind, i found an option in the menu. :)

 

About the empty folder, i was just confused. When a filter is active, it could be possible that a folder will be empty. Maybe these folders can be hided?

 

About random playback, missed the hidden shortcut, could be added as button, too :)


Edited by toimp, 13 August 2018 - 20:35.


#82 joule

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 19:13

My impressions, if I may share:

 

* No instant playback. 0.2s (?) delay is really bugging me. Has to be snappy IMO.

* Took me a couple of minutes to understand how to add files and make them searchable (= not via drag'n'drop). Libraries/collection/explore concepts aren't instantly obvious.

* Doesn't seem fully well trained for vocal sounds? I'm getting more irrelevant hits there, it seems. I guess it's getting tricked either by formant filters or "burring" (?) sounds.

 

* Seems great!



#83 toimp

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 20:05

Mhn, i cant mix class and categories. For example, "Claps" and "Loop" to get some looped clap samples. Is this a bug?



#84 danoise

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 21:15

Thanks joule!
 

* No instant playback. 0.2s (?) delay is really bugging me. Has to be snappy IMO.


Oh, this is definitely due to the (very) conservative "default" audio settings.
Head into preferences and dial it down all the way until you start to hear crackles on the test tone.
Or better still: use ASIO :-)

But you have a point - we should add a dialog, shown initially, pointing out that you might want to adjust these settings.
 

* Took me a couple of minutes to understand how to add files and make them searchable (= not via drag'n'drop). Libraries/collection/explore concepts aren't instantly obvious.


Indeed, the library is where the "meat" is. Unfortunately, you can't get there without first building a database - hence, the explorer.
But I could imagine that eventually, these things will fit more tightly together.
 

* Doesn't seem fully well trained for vocal sounds? I'm getting more irrelevant hits there, it seems. I guess it's getting tricked either by formant filters or "burring" (?) sounds.

Yes, vocals are indeed the hardest for a computer to tell apart - something we suspected would be tricky all along.
Refining the models have been a continuous process, which involves refining the training data, measuring test results, gathering feedback, etc. It's a long and time consuming process.
The biggest improvements usually arrive as we identify some "obvious" and well-defined category... because then, these sounds won't end up elsewhere :)
It's always going to be a bit fuzzy, though - which is also why we've made it possible for a sample to be "on the fence" (belong to one, two or even more categories at the same time).  
 

Mhn, i cant mix class and categories. For example, "Claps" and "Loop" to get some looped clap samples. Is this a bug?

Not a bug, but perhaps missing functionality. As things are now, a sample can be classified in four different ways:

* Loop
* Oneshot
* Loop/Oneshot
* Oneshot/Loop

When both classes are present, the first one is the primary class (this is also made clear by the text being brighter)
And, (this is what you're looking for) currently a "pure" Loop does not display a category, while the other 3 are able to.

So, while you can actually select the "Claps" category and get some loops, they will be Oneshot/Loops as things are currently working.
But it does indeed make sense for simple, well defined loops. Note taken :)

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#85 kytdkut

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 02:42

nice! really liking it so far :)

 

one small issue though, on linux I can't seem to be able to drag & drop from sononym to renoise (nor redux)

 

I don't think this is related to my WM, I can dnd to reaper (native) and even to a reasamplomatic5000 instance



#86 Skyscape

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 04:49

Looks great from the vid, looking forward to trying it out. Just a heads up google autocorrects 'sononym' to 'synonym' by default when you search for it - so if someone searches for 'sononym sample browser' they get hits for synonims of browser on thesaurus.com - just something to think about for SEO etc.


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#87 danoise

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 09:54

one small issue though, on linux I can't seem to be able to drag & drop from sononym to renoise (nor redux)

Hm, this _should_ work but we test only with a couple of Linux distros.
Which one are you using, if I might ask?
 

google autocorrects 'sononym' to 'synonym' by default when you search for it

Haha, yes. We've basically picked a fight against auto-correction! I guess we have no choice but to teach Google (et al) that 'sononym' is now a thing.
We have won the SEO battle though - once you manage to convince the search engine that yes, you really did mean what you wrote, we are among the first few results :-)

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#88 kytdkut

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 14:03

Hm, this _should_ work but we test only with a couple of Linux distros.
Which one are you using, if I might ask?

 

Sure, I'm using Arch Linux. Any other info I could give to ease troubleshooting?



#89 danoise

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 14:52

@kytdkut: not for now, no. Just knowing the distro will be very helpful, I'm sure.

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#90 danoise

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 15:15

i want my discount  :badteethslayer:


I want my discount MTV!! 
Ehhh...wait. 
 
Here's the deal: if you scroll up this page, I've now attached a poll which will let us gauge the interest for a group discount: 
 
It works like this: if many people indicate that they are strongly interested (replying yes), you will be able to purchase a Sononym at up to half the price. 
"Less than many" (I dunno, 50 people or less..) will only yield a discount of 75% 25%. But then, the good thing is that that's pretty much guaranteed to happen. 

 

The discount will be limited to a certain time period and/or quantity - these details will be announced once the polling is over. 
 
Basically: if you're interested you can spread the word ( == annoy your tracker friends) and you're more likely to save money yourself.
Sounds great, eh?  :D
 
Edit: and no rush, we'll keep this poll open for a while. As in, at least a week and probably more.


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#91 Beatslaughter

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 15:41

... will only yield a discount of 75%:unsure:  But then, the good thing is that that's pretty much guaranteed to happen.


#92 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 16:07

 

... will only yield a discount of 75%:unsure:  But then, the good thing is that that's pretty much guaranteed to happen.

 

 

It is probably a mistake. It is clear that it refers to a 25% discount and a 50% discount. That is 75% of the price or 50% of the price.


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#93 toimp

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 18:02

Found a small bug with umlauts:

Lx95SP8.png

 

I've currently ~105.000 samples indexed. Starting Sononym takes a while. Maybe you guys can improve the loading time abit? Resetting filters also takes 1-2 seconds, because of the amount of samples.

Is the list fully added to the DOM? Maybe this is the reason why. There are some clever javascript libs out there, which only render current visible list items.

 

Does sononym see new samples and folders by itself? I know i can do a refresh, but with this amount of samples, it takes some time.



#94 danoise

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 20:29

It is probably a mistake.

 
Yup  :blush:  and somehow it fixed itself while I was AFK for a few hours
So either the Renoise forum has evolved sentient powers by itself - or someone fixed it for me...

Found a small bug with umlauts:

Thanks!! There should be UTF8 support everywhere, but obviously this one slipped through.
 

Is the list fully added to the DOM? Maybe this is the reason why.

No, this would be due to the SQLite database driver - not the rendering itself (the table of results is fully "virtualized").
But it's true - the larger the database is, the longer it takes to "warm up". Once warmed up, the size itself only has a minimal impact on queries.
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#95 Guest_ffx_*

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 21:27

ups sorry misunderstood the thing


Edited by ffx, 14 August 2018 - 21:28.


#96 toimp

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 18:52

@danoise: How does sononym see new samples and folders in a library? I know i can do a refresh, but with my amount of samples, it takes some time.



#97 danoise

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 20:01

@toimp: for now, refreshing is the way. It's quite intensive to "watch" an entire filesystem (we've been there)... but I'm sure we will find a way  :)


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#98 Guest_ffx_*

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 21:06

I think on macos its fsevents, no need to actively watch dirs every second. If the event popups, then you can check if its inside your dirs?



#99 Veggies

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 00:11

I use a program called Everything, and after building its initial indexing of every file and folder on all my harddrives, it updates instantly any time changes are made anywhere on my computer. I wonder how it does it?



#100 4Tey

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 06:36

I wonder how it does it?

By running as a lower level service and accessing/monitoring the NTFS master file table directly? -> https://en.wikipedia...ster_File_Table

All this over a (expensive) file browser?  I should've become a developer :unsure: