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Mapping drumset to keyzones


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#1 vitaminx

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 23:49

Hi there,

 

I have a very specific problem with instrument keyzones.

I'm trying to make my Alesis Forge drum kit work over MIDI with a set of multilayered drum samples in Renoise.

I've set all samples to "One-Shot" trigger and "Continue" NNA.

I have assigned the samples to keyzones and when I play the drums, the correct samples are triggered.

 

So far so good.

 

Now the problem is that I want the Hihat pedal to cut off the open hihat sample - so that when I press the hihat pedal the pedal sample is triggered and the open hihat sample is muted.

The only way I could make this somehow work is to assign all hihat samples to the same Mute Group, but then I can't play the Open Hihat fast anymore because each hit cut's off the previous note too.

 

Is it possible to do what I need with Renoise?
I'd be super happy about any tips.

 

BONUS PROBLEM :)

 

The drumkits' crash can be muted by grabbing it with the hand. This generates two "Poly Aftertouch" MIDI messages, one with value "127" and the other one with "0".

Can I use this MIDI event somehow to mute the crash samples in Renoise?

 

Great thanks  :walkman:



#2 random

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:32

Hi,

assign all Hats as one shot,  put the notes, triggers only in one track where they cut each other off

 

Track 01 - Kick

Track 02 - Snare

Track 03 - Hats (Open/Close)


Edited by random, 01 June 2018 - 08:39.


#3 vitaminx

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 09:31

I guess I tried what you propose, but it doesn't sound good, as I wrote before:

 

but then I can't play the Open Hihat fast anymore because each hit cut's off the previous note too


#4 random

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:05


That's the case with a real drummer (not a must in electronic music)

 

maybe I understand you wrong (my english)
With a new Track theres no cut
Track 05 - Hat open
also a possibility would be to double the Bbm + Pattern lengh to get more space between the sounds

80 Bpm + 32 row = 160 Bbm + 64 row


Edited by random, 01 June 2018 - 11:16.


#5 vitaminx

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:30

maybe I understand you wrong (my english)

 

Maybe i explain wrong (my english too) haha :D

Later at home I'll record what I mean, maybe this explains it better.



#6 fladd

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 20:56

Unfortunately, the sampler in its current form is not very well suited for drums. I also ran into several issues when trying to use it for this, which I have discussed in length in this forum. Whether it is mapping samples from a drum machine, or whether it is mapping an electronic drum kit, there are always some limitations that will not make it work entirely. The general consensus when reporting issues like this is that we are not meant to create playable drumkits with the sampler that we can later just record (with MIDI), but that we are supposed to just use the sampler as a sample player for one shots, and programme drum-specific behaviour and sounds (mutes etc.) while sequencing.

 

So just consider the Renoise sampler a sequencing-sampler, rather than an actual playable instrument (like other samplers).



#7 vitaminx

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:37

So, I've did a couple more tests and this is the best it gets:

 

- uncheck "Note Offs" in "Edit" -> "Preferences" -> "MIDI"

- disable "One-Shot" for all samples in instrument

- set "NNA" to "Continue" for all samples in instrument

- add all Hihat samples to Mute Group 1

- *do not* set instrument to Mono (I've tried that before to work around issues)

 

Pros:

- works great with Alesis Forge Drumkit

- all MIDI notes are recorded efficiently with only as many note columns used as really needed (solves 1. when enabling "One-Shot" a new note column is created whenever the previous sample is still playing - this seems to exhaust available columns and cause notes to be lost when you play fast or when you use long sounding samples, and 2. when enabling "Mono" for the instrument then only the first note column is used, but it loses notes which are played at the same time)

- you can both play live and do MIDI recordings with this settings

 

Cons:

- playing with computer keyboard doesn't work well anymore as it seems to always send Note-Offs; samples will be cut when releasing keys (because One-Shot is not set)

- you cannot have more than one hihat sample play at the same time; this is not a super big issue and maybe you won't notice it that much - but still it's not quite as a hihat should sound (if you would strike a real hihat two times, then the sound of the first strike would blend with the second stroke, and not simply be cut off)

- i still have no idea how to simulate muting the crash by hand


Edited by vitaminx, 04 June 2018 - 09:38.

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