Jump to content


Photo

Greyed notes in pattern editor - what do they mean and how do I make t


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 globetrotterdk

globetrotterdk

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 25 June 2018 - 20:53

A simple chord inversion exercise to help me dig into Renoise. I have tried searching, but as I don't know what greyed notes mean, I am not getting anything relevant. How do I make those notes "normal" like the rest of the pattern?


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx


#2 Paul Buck

Paul Buck

    Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Drain

Posted 25 June 2018 - 21:56

Only time I see greyed out notes is when I see them in previous or upcoming patterns. Haven't seen greyed notes in a selected pattern...

Hopefully one of the people who really know what they're talking about can help.

#3 globetrotterdk

globetrotterdk

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 26 June 2018 - 08:01

:) I chose a file, but didn't attach it. Here (hopefully) is what it looks like.

Attached Images

  • chord_inversion_exercise_renoise.png

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx


#4 joule

joule

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1834 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 26 June 2018 - 09:21

It's just a color theme thing.. since they are placed on a non-highlighted row. You can change it in the theme preferences if you want them to be identical, for example.



#5 globetrotterdk

globetrotterdk

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 26 June 2018 - 10:28

It's just a color theme thing.. since they are placed on a non-highlighted row. You can change it in the theme preferences if you want them to be identical, for example.

Hi, thanks, but I should have added that the grayed notes don't seem to be being played.

 

It is very strange. Some bass notes will play even when the track is muted, while some chords refuse to play at all.


Edited by globetrotterdk, 26 June 2018 - 13:54.

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx


#6 dblue

dblue

    Dodgy Geezer

  • Admins
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5827 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:Code. Music. Graphics.

Posted 26 June 2018 - 14:10

I see you are playing instruments 00 and 01 on two different tracks simultaneously.

Are they sampled-based instruments which contain some internal DSP effect chains? If so, you will need to take care where you place the notes, because by default the instrument can only output to a single track at any given time, otherwise the audio streams will basically cut each other off. To avoid this you should set up proper routings inside the instrument, to link each effect chain to a specific track that it should always output to.

If they are VST plugin instruments then you have similar limitations to consider, because most typical plugins can only output a single stereo audio stream to a single track. If it's a multi-timbral instrument, then you will need to set up the appropriate channel routings for each voice, routing the outputs to the intended tracks within Renoise.

A simple way to avoid complications: Only play each instrument on a single dedicated track, and don't mix your notes across multiple tracks unless it is a very basic sample with no internal DSP chains. If it's just a basic sample then Renoise can happily play it everywhere, since it does not have any complex audio streams to deal with8.

#7 globetrotterdk

globetrotterdk

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 26 June 2018 - 17:23

I see you are playing instruments 00 and 01 on two different tracks simultaneously.

Are they sampled-based instruments which contain some internal DSP effect chains? If so, you will need to take care where you place the notes, because by default the instrument can only output to a single track at any given time, otherwise the audio streams will basically cut each other off. To avoid this you should set up proper routings inside the instrument, to link each effect chain to a specific track that it should always output to.

If they are VST plugin instruments then you have similar limitations to consider, because most typical plugins can only output a single stereo audio stream to a single track. If it's a multi-timbral instrument, then you will need to set up the appropriate channel routings for each voice, routing the outputs to the intended tracks within Renoise.

A simple way to avoid complications: Only play each instrument on a single dedicated track, and don't mix your notes across multiple tracks unless it is a very basic sample with no internal DSP chains. If it's just a basic sample then Renoise can happily play it everywhere, since it does not have any complex audio streams to deal with8.

Thanks for the reply. I am using the "space piano" and "unobass" instruments that come with Renoise. Space piano looks like it uses a phrase if that is what you mean. I have looked under DSP and MIDI in the user manual to try to understand what a "proper routing inside (an) instrument" would be. I thought that as I am using one instrument per track, that the "effect chain" would be linked to the specific track. Interestingly, on the file that I have been working on (see the above attached snapshot) there doesn't appear to be any correlation between a note being greyed out and whether more than one note is being played at the same time. Likewise, "off" commands are also greyed out, i.e no note is being played at all.


Edited by globetrotterdk, 26 June 2018 - 17:24.

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx


#8 dblue

dblue

    Dodgy Geezer

  • Admins
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5827 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin
  • Interests:Code. Music. Graphics.

Posted 26 June 2018 - 17:53

I am using the "space piano" and "unobass" instruments that come with Renoise.


Both instruments feature internal DSP effect chains to alter their sound, as indicated by the "chain" icon displayed by their name.

See: http://tutorials.ren...om/wiki/Effects

 

I thought that as I am using one instrument per track


Look closely at the notes recorded in each track, at the instrument number in particular.

For example:

C-400 — Instrument 00

G-401 — Instrument 01

You have notes from both instruments playing in both tracks. This is where the playback issue stems from, because the DSP effect chains mentioned above cannot be correctly played on multiple different tracks simultaneously.

My advice would be to simply organise all of the "Space Piano" notes in Track 1, and all of the "Unobass" notes in Track 2, so that each of them are playing in their own dedicated track. You should not run into any playback issues this way.

 

there doesn't appear to be any correlation between a note being greyed out


The greyed/dimmed notes are purely cosmetic in nature.

The pattern editor simply highlights each beat with slightly brighter text, while the other lines have slightly darker text.

You can adjust this highlighting via Main Menu > Song > Song Options


Edit: I recreated the pattern in your screenshot to hopefully clear things up.

Attached File  dblue-2018-06-26-globetrotterdk.xrns   3.23MB   10 downloads

#9 globetrotterdk

globetrotterdk

    Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 26 June 2018 - 18:35

Ahh. Thanks for being so patient. I thought that I had separated them correctly between the two tracks. Something must have happened during editing and copy pasting. Sooo, is there a keyboard shortcut that makes it possible to rotate a highlighted value already in the pattern editor up or down, such as changing note octave of an existing note and switching between instruments?


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx


#10 Zer0 Fly

Zer0 Fly

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1257 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Am Mind
  • Interests:Buddha

Posted 26 June 2018 - 23:44

remap with scope "track in song" in the advanced edit panel at the left right hand side of the pattern editor


Edited by Zer0 Fly, 26 June 2018 - 23:49.