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Importing MIDI Drum Loops is a mess


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#1 hcv242

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:21

When i import a midi drum loop the notes are obviously a mess in the track. they show up like in the print screen. i would like to know if there is a tool that organizes stuff for me, that puts the kick (C4) on the first channel, the snare (D#4) on the second and so on.

 

here is a print screen of how things are imported:

 

 https://imageshack.us/i/pmunVn5Fj



#2 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 12:33

When i import a midi drum loop the notes are obviously a mess in the track. they show up like in the print screen. i would like to know if there is a tool that organizes stuff for me, that puts the kick (C4) on the first channel, the snare (D#4) on the second and so on.

 

here is a print screen of how things are imported:

 

 https://imageshack.us/i/pmunVn5Fj

 

I understand that the live recording does not depend on the note, but on which one it hits first. If you do not use quantization, each note will be accompanied by a delay value. In addition, they will be sorted according to the time in each note column (one note always after another in time).

 

The best way to do that would be to create a specific tool with the ability to analyze all the notes of each track and sort them as you want. The easiest is to sort them according to the seminotas (C- C # D -... B-), independently of the octave.

 

However, this is tedious and may have specific conflicting cases, such as repeating notes of different octaves.

 

...

 

I'm finishing a tool that has to do with the MIDI input and the mass routing. So you can record live each note on a separate track, regardless of the instrument. Yes, individual notes! That is, notes mass routing. It does not allow to assign each note to a concrete note column, but to a specific track.

 

In theory you have 2 solutions. Or use a specific tool that orders notes after you write them, or a tool designed for live recording with massive routing. Possibly the best thing is to create a group with several tracks, and allocate each track to a specific sample or instrument.

 

Possibly in a short time I will launch a tool that will help a lot with these tasks...


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#3 danoise

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 13:12

i would like to know if there is a tool that organizes stuff for me, that puts the kick (C4) on the first channel

 

If, by "channel", you mean note-column, then look no further than this tool: 

https://www.renoise....ols/voicerunner

 

(hint: it has different sort algorithms - you want the use the 'Unique' method)

 

Else, if you meant "track" then this tool should do the trick:

https://www.renoise....separate-tracks


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#4 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 22:06

If, by "channel", you mean note-column, then look no further than this tool: 

https://www.renoise....ols/voicerunner

 

(hint: it has different sort algorithms - you want the use the 'Unique' method)

 

Else, if you meant "track" then this tool should do the trick:

https://www.renoise....separate-tracks

 

Oh yes, VoiceRunner tool seems to fit perfectly for a later process.

 

I am trying to make a tool that allows you to record directly on separate tracks, with a more thorough control of the instruments, especially for percussion. The intention is to be able to record on separate tracks so that the notes do not "bother" each other, as happens when recording on a single track in several note columns. Being able to try and record different notes on separate tracks at the same time has its charm. Provided there are not many clues at once. Otherwise, it is a bit difficult to control everything.

 

That is, there are several solutions for sorting notes. What I miss are more tools that allow you to do all this in live recording, not in a later process. Possibly, the result is cleaner and more direct. What can not yet be built is a tool that allows you to record the notes in the specific note columns, using the Renoise recording. I think Renoise's recording always uses the note column that is furthest to the left, inside the selected track.

 

Possibly, Renoise could improve if he could record different instruments or specific notes in different tracks, but from the same MIDI device. I imagine the typical user who starts to compose, who buys the Renoise license (< 90€) and with little money starts to build his small home studio. From the beginning, you will want to use a single device to control your DAW. The other day I consulted the price of a MIDI pad controller with 64 pads with pulsation velocity, which is great for percussion. The price approaches 300€, and that is not considered expensive. However, I believe that many things can be done through software, in this case through well-designed tools. And here comes the live recording.

 

I comment all this roll because the cheap MIDI controllers are very poor to be able to route or to be able to divide the controls, keys, pads, to control different instruments (or notes) to record them in different tracks, at the same time. In the end, the habitual user stays stuck in the live recording of a single instrument on a single track, and repeat the process until complete the song. I'm not saying it's an erroneous process. In fact it is quite effective. Simply, it is possible to obtain more options through well-focused tools. Most of the tools I've seen so far are "later processes." I miss more tools for live recording with a MIDI device and thus avoid having more MIDI devices and spend more money.


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#5 danoise

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 13:30

What I miss are more tools that allow you to do all this in live recording, not in a later process. Possibly, the result is cleaner and more direct. 

 

Do you remember the talk we were having a while back? 

The main challenge in doing this is, that the number of note columns is limited. I remember you posted some screenshots, investigating ideas like "one octave per track" (12 notes = 12 note columns). 

And the problem then becomes that the optimal use of space is only possible when you know the range of notes you are going to record beforehand. But that's usually not how it works. 

Which, to me, is why it's perfectly acceptable to record something, and then let a tool "optimize" the result. 


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#6 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 15:17

I constantly get an error message when using voice runner from the right click menu 

 

'C:\Users\Jazzin' Julie\AppData\Roaming\Renoise\V3.1.1\Scripts\Tools\com.renoise.VoiceRunner.xrnx\' failed to execute in one of its menu entry functions.

 
Please contact the author (danoise [bjorn.nesby@gmail.com]) for assistance...
 
main.lua:118: attempt to index upvalue 'voicerunner' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
  main.lua:118: in function <main.lua:117>
 
'
The problem solves itself when running voice runner from the dropdown menu 
On vista 32 bit 

Edited by gentleclockdivider, 05 July 2018 - 15:21.

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#7 danoise

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 15:19

I constantly get an error message when using voice runner 

 

http://forum.renoise...unner/?p=371043


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#8 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 00:46

Which, to me, is why it's perfectly acceptable to record something, and then let a tool "optimize" the result. 

 

I agree with this. I myself use this kind of tools from time to time, some of my harvest.

 

What I'm trying to point out is that there is a valid approach to be able to record the notes directly on separate tracks. A tool capable of routing instruments or even single notes, on specific tracks. In this way, even if you play several notes while they are on the same track, they will accumulate there. This approach allows not only to separate instruments between different tracks for live recording, directly, on separate tracks. But it also serves to divide the notes of a single instrument to be recorded in several tracks (notes routed). The advantage of a tracker like this is that it is possible to do all this. I have already created a tool that works frankly well in this way.
 
In this way, we have 2 approaches:
  1. Record the notes on a single track with your MIDI device. With a second step, use a tool to sort the notes.
  2. Use a "bridge tool" to record the notes routed on separate tracks, through Renoise's own live recording, through OSC, through your MIDI device. This could already be considered the end of a road. What I like most is that you can experiment with several instruments at the same time on separate tracks, with the effects chains of each track working. In addition, if the tool allows more advanced control to press and release the notes, it is possible to use it for live performances, and all with a single tool and with a single MIDI device, with a specific mapping.

I mention this second option because it also adds an extra fun. To be able to play and record different instruments at the same time on separate tracks, well classified.

 

Imagine a MIDI keyboard with 61 keys and a pad of 16 velocity sensitive pads. The pads is used for a track and a percussion instrument (or several, that is, several notes). The keyboard can be divided by zones to play different instruments, 3 or 4, each recording the notes on separate tracks, everything from the tool. Everything directly. And this is possible with a "simple" and lightweight tool and a MIDI device of less than 200€, avoiding having several MIDI devices on the table.

 

I've always wondered how much money people are willing to spend with hardware (MIDI devices), if they only aspire to buy a DAW that costs less than 100€. Then, I see the amount of MIDI devices quite expensive, around € 500, which have several routing options, among other things. Then, with LUA tools focused on it, it is possible to do the same or even more advanced things, even with a very cheap MIDI keyboard.

 

Maybe I'm deflecting the thread here. But somehow it is related to the need of users to want to separate the notes and classify them. Surely they will have a simple MIDI keyboard, or even that.


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#9 random

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:50

I've always wondered how much money people are willing to spend with hardware (MIDI devices), if they only aspire to buy a DAW that costs less than 100€. Then, I see the amount of MIDI devices quite expensive, around € 500, which have several routing options, among other things. Then, with LUA tools focused on it, it is possible to do the same or even more advanced things, even with a very cheap MIDI keyboard.

 

is this also possible with midi-split?
some old (now cheap) synthesizers can do that
for example Kawai K1, Ensoniq SQ-1



#10 danoise

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:51

I mention this second option because it also adds an extra fun.

 

For realtime recording, I would use something flexible like xRules. 

 

Here is a ruleset which demonstrates how to split incoming notes into specific tracks:

https://gist.github....01dd24a05393aa0


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#11 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 16:44

This is the tool I mentioned before, recently published: KangarooX120.

 

Its strength is not the note columns, but the tracks. Record specific notes directly on separate specific tracks, regardless of the instrument. For percussion sections, this tool is a gift! Even the virtual piano can be divided into three zones to record the same instrument on three separate tracks. Of course, it is necessary to take advantage of the MIDI input to the maximum.


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:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 26 September 2017):

Spoiler