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Unable to comfortably use Renoise


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#1 Waz

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 18:11

I was about to purchase Renoise, but I decided to download the demo first.  I went through all of the tutorials on the site and a few youtube tutorials and there was one glaring issue.  No UI scaling for 2k+ resolutions.  After some research, it looks like this is a common complaint.  My eyes cannot handle it.  I wear glasses and the fatigue after just 30 minutes of use is pretty extreme.

 

Are the devs implementing support for UI scaling soon?  Is there a timeline?  Have they acknowledged this publicly? 

 

If there is a timeline for implementation I will buy it now and learn the DAW on my crappy Linux laptop before putting it onto my main (everyday use) machine.

 

Thank you in advance for answering my questions.  :)


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#2 Rpnz

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 18:50

soon?


no.
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#3 joule

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 18:54

I think the last substantial statement was this one: http://forum.renoise...e-4#entry354972


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#4 Waz

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 19:06

I think the last substantial statement was this one: http://forum.renoise...e-4#entry354972

Thank you for a reply.  That was a long time ago.  Bummer it won't be soon.  Are they slow on implementing features?  It seems like they are working on another project and don't have time for Renoise?



#5 joule

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 19:11

It seems like they are working on another project

 

http://forum.renoise...sample-browser/


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#6 Waz

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 20:03

That was an underwhelming click.  :(


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#7 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 19:39

It's not entering code , it's entering notes  displayed in the latin alphabet + some  effects commands , which you should really learn to get the most out of a tracker .
It will soon become a second nature and you'll despise everything that has a piano roll , there is no way back 
Go for it 


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#8 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 15:32

Oh yeah and def. get a mechanical keyboard .
Ducky one's  or filco's are the beez kneez !


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#9 Mivo

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 15:46

Oh yeah and def. get a mechanical keyboard .
Ducky one's  or filco's are the beez kneez !

Might as well knock yourself out with this: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ I actually thought about it, but I already have three "normal" mechanical keyboards and just bought 120 O-rings to mod my favorite one (Corsair K65, tenkeyless, red switches).

 

As for the OP, sadly, yes, my experience is the same. Renoise 3.1 just isn't comfortable to use on my 1440p display, even with up-to-date glasses.



#10 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 19:10

Might as well knock yourself out with this: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ I actually thought about it, but I already have three "normal" mechanical keyboards and just bought 120 O-rings to mod my favorite one (Corsair K65, tenkeyless, red switches).

 

As for the OP, sadly, yes, my experience is the same. Renoise 3.1 just isn't comfortable to use on my 1440p display, even with up-to-date glasses.

 

Mivo, I recently updated my graphics card to a much better one. Now I am at the point of looking at a new monitor, and I am seriously looking to acquire a monitor of 1440 pixels high. Can you fully explain what visual problems you have with Renoise? Is it only that the fonts and icons look very small?


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#11 LofiMat

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 20:41

everytime I visit this place and reading through the forums I get more confused and then leaving with even more questions then I first came with.



#12 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 22:26

everytime I visit this place and reading through the forums I get more confused and then leaving with even more questions then I first came with.

 

That's because every time you know more information :). I guess the summary would be: from 768 to 1080 Renoise will look increasingly smaller but acceptable. Overcoming the 1080 starts to look too small. With 4K you need rescaling, not only for the view, but for the control with the mouse itself (the buttons are very small ...).

 

What I want to know is if it is possible to decently control Renoise with a screen of 1440 pixels in height. That are monitors of about 32-35".

 

On the other hand, you can buy a monitor 27-28 "or even larger with HD resolution (1080 pixels high), and being a" small "resolution for such a big screen, you will see bigger Renoise. It would be the worst, a 17 "screen with a very high resolution. You will see everything very neat but small, and that not only hinders the view, but also the control with the mouse.

 

The resolution of the screen must always be accompanied by the size of the screen.


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#13 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 00:51

Might as well knock yourself out with this: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ I actually thought about it, but I already have three "normal" mechanical keyboards and just bought 120 O-rings to mod my favorite one (Corsair K65, tenkeyless, red switches).

 

As for the OP, sadly, yes, my experience is the same. Renoise 3.1 just isn't comfortable to use on my 1440p display, even with up-to-date glasses.

Man that's one ugly keyboard :)

Besides , everybody knows the ultimate hacking keyboard is the HHK ,,it  has topre instead of cherry switches 

https://www.hhkeyboard.com/

Filco's ( majestouch )are the best mechanical keyboards , they last a lifetime , ducky is also verry good , so is leopold and lot's of others .
Just steer away from those gaming keyboards  ( razer, etcc ) , go for the high quality ones  ( filco, ducky , leopold etccc) 
It may cost more , but you get a sturdy piece of kit that will last a long time 
I am very happy with mine , amazing build quality , cherry mx red switches and some coloured pbt keycaps to finish it of 

Lot's of info on reddit 

https://www.reddit.c...nicalKeyboards/
I have the one in this video ( not my video ) , it fucking build like a tank , 1200 gram , amazing piece 


Edited by gentleclockdivider, 12 November 2018 - 00:53.

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#14 Mivo

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 14:08

Mivo, I recently updated my graphics card to a much better one. Now I am at the point of looking at a new monitor, and I am seriously looking to acquire a monitor of 1440 pixels high. Can you fully explain what visual problems you have with Renoise? Is it only that the fonts and icons look very small?

 

Yes, the UI is tiny and too small (for me) on a 27" display. The font size for the pattern editor can be increased, but that's it. I imagine if you sit very close to the screen, it won't be too bad, but I sit 70+ cm away from the screen. If I increase Windows 10 scaling to 110% or 125%, Renoise looks blurry. Either way, the experience causes eye strain and fatigue for me.

 

I looked into getting a 32" 1440p display, but there is really only one option with the other requirements I have (non-curved, G-Sync, 144hz+) and the reviews for that model didn't convince me, and besides, I don't want to spend €700 on a monitor that I don't really need (I have a display with all of these specs, just in 27"). A 4k display isn't an option for me right now because there are no models with 144hz or better and G-Sync (and my 980ti wouldn't cut it for 4k gaming).


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#15 LofiMat

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 17:41

also depends on the personal eyesight but 1080p on a 15inch didnt work at all, even some might use this setup. got to have to check out 1080p on a 17inch like mivo said, maybe thats an option but also I believe it would be already too small for my eyes and make me feel uncomfortable. then sitting like 2inches away from the screen too.  B)


Edited by LofiMat, 12 November 2018 - 17:42.


#16 Meef Chaloin

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 19:26

Yeah, 1080p on 15 inch is too small for me too.


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#17 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 19:52

Yes, the UI is tiny and too small (for me) on a 27" display. The font size for the pattern editor can be increased, but that's it. I imagine if you sit very close to the screen, it won't be too bad, but I sit 70+ cm away from the screen. If I increase Windows 10 scaling to 110% or 125%, Renoise looks blurry. Either way, the experience causes eye strain and fatigue for me.

 

I looked into getting a 32" 1440p display, but there is really only one option with the other requirements I have (non-curved, G-Sync, 144hz+) and the reviews for that model didn't convince me, and besides, I don't want to spend €700 on a monitor that I don't really need (I have a display with all of these specs, just in 27"). A 4k display isn't an option for me right now because there are no models with 144hz or better and G-Sync (and my 980ti wouldn't cut it for 4k gaming).

 

Thanks!

 

OK, I think I already have a rough idea. I'm seriously looking at a screen that is 32-35" high by 1440. I guess 32" with 1440px the size will look like a 24 "1080 px screen, I'm not interested in the 4K, they're too much faces and graphics cards too, I think the best current format is 35 "2K widescreen, which has the resolution small enough for the graphics card to perform well without leaving you a month's salary.

 

I also think that 27 "with the resolution 2K is a lot of resolution, that is, it will look smaller in this configuration than in a monitor of 24" to 1080. The best thing would be to compare 2 monitors side by side, but unfortunately I can not. Choosing a large monitor is one of the most expensive components of the PC. Also the most complicated to choose.

 

Another issue that concerns me is the response time, or the frequency, to be able to use dark themes and that the parameters in the pattern editor are not "blurred" when scrolling. I do not know if you have had this problem. It seems that the color change of the LEDs is very important to see the information in movement, especially with dark subjects, with black background.

 

I could create a forum just to do a small study of the best monitors in this range of sizes 32-35 ", to see what would be the best option without spending too much ... Spending more than € 400 on a monitor seems already too much to me. the € 500 would be reasonable if the monitor really convinces me.


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#18 Mivo

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 18:06

There isn't much choice if you want 32-35", 1440p, a good refresh rate (5ms or lower) and more than 60hz (I could not go back to 60hz after three years with a 144hz monitor). And even less choice if you want G-Sync (a bit more choice if you are fine with FreeSync, if you have an ATI/AMD card).

 

I don't know how good your German is, but the best place I know to look up monitors is this one: https://www.prad.de/...uche-datenbank/ Bildaufbauzeit is response time, Auflösung is resolution, Bildwiederholrate is refresh rate, Bildschirmdiagonale is the screen size. You probably want a VA or better a IPS panel type (Paneltyp) with a larger display. 


Edited by Mivo, 13 November 2018 - 18:08.

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#19 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 19:48

There isn't much choice if you want 32-35", 1440p, a good refresh rate (5ms or lower) and more than 60hz (I could not go back to 60hz after three years with a 144hz monitor). And even less choice if you want G-Sync (a bit more choice if you are fine with FreeSync, if you have an ATI/AMD card).

 

I don't know how good your German is, but the best place I know to look up monitors is this one: https://www.prad.de/...uche-datenbank/ Bildaufbauzeit is response time, Auflösung is resolution, Bildwiederholrate is refresh rate, Bildschirmdiagonale is the screen size. You probably want a VA or better a IPS panel type (Paneltyp) with a larger display. 

 

Thanks! I do not understand German, I am Spanish ^_^.

 

Today I have been looking at monitors, and finally I have reached a potential candidate: The Samsung SJ55W:

  1. 34" WQHD (21:9)
  2. Black frame
  3. Flat (not curved)
  4. 3440x1440 px
  5. VA panel (not IPS)
  6. 75Hz max
  7. 4ms GtG
  8. FreeSync
  9. 2 HDMI and DP
  10. with speackers
  11. It does not consume too much.
  12. Recent, released in late summer I think.
  13. VESA support
  14. Price, around € 400

 

Just I say one more thing. In Spanish stores, most monitors of this resolution have a price higher than € 700. There are no more options. There is also a very cheap AOC model, but with a lower resolution of 32. "Everything else is more expensive or much more expensive, I find it a bit strange, it's like there's a big hole without covering for this kind of monitors, among 350 and € 500 with these features...

 

What do you think? I'm about to buy it.

Edited by Raul (ulneiz), 13 November 2018 - 20:00.

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#20 Mivo

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 21:42

The price is good!
 
I wonder about 3440x1440 with a flat display, though. It'll be very wide and relatively narrow, probably about as tall as a 27" monitor (maybe even a little less). The 34" come from the width. Check if you can get the physical height and width for the monitor, I was actually surprised how physically narrow/"short" 21:9 displays are. It's also rather wide for a VA display, so you will likely have some de-coloring/blurring issues when you look at the far ends, depending on how close you sit to it.
 
If I went for a 21:9 monitor, I'd probably consider a curved display (though in general I'm not a fan, but that has partly to do with my eyesight and strength of my glasses). I think with a vertical tracker, 21:9 may not be what you want, unless you use an awful lot of tracks! I also feel 75hz is pretty low, but if you currently use a 60hz display, it will not be a problem for you.
 
Black Friday is soon. Do stores in Spain have extra discounts for that?


#21 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 21:52

34 "It is not an oversized size, probably the height is somewhat larger than a 24-inch monitor, very close to a 27" monitor, but much wider. It is also likely that you put another old monitor on top of it. I'm not in a hurry to buy, but I've seen dozens of monitors, and for price benefits, this is the best I've seen. Yes, I use 2 monitors of 60Hz, one VA (old) and another IPS, and for some reason, I feel more comfortable with the VA, at least to read. I do not think the screen is so big to have serious problems at the edges. If the screen was more than 40 ", I would seriously see it being curved, but it's a lot of money, spending more than € 400 on a monitor seems like a savage.

 

Yes, Black Friday is celebrated on November 23 in Spain. But I very much doubt finding offers with these monitors. The store where I have looked already has a significant discount applied.


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Spoiler

#22 Haplo

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 18:18

Not using glasses so I can't say if there is an issue or not but the curve is very slight.

Have been using a 34" curved 21:9 screen (3440x1440) for a while now and so far it has been the best size/format for me.

It's like having two screens without the bezels of two.

 

Usually scaling is an issue on 4K / HiDPI screens.



#23 GlowNote

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Posted Yesterday, 01:09

Sometimes the answer is simple, unglamorous and old fashioned.

 

Reading glasses. If you have to deal with stupidly high DPI (and IMO it is becoming stupid) put on reading glasses and come in closer. Works great.

 

I don't wear prescription glasses. Normally I am comfortable about 27" from the screen. With 2X reading glasses I end up about 9" from the screen and everything is big and sharp. I see the pixels. And of course my eyes are comfortable as if the screen were 2 feet away.

 

Bring your smart phone into an office supply place or drug store and try different power reading glasses on a web page with small font. Or maybe a screenshot of Renoise. Maybe bring a laptop running Renoise.

 

Don't know how this interacts with needing prescription glasses.