I’m just interested in discussing people’s workflow with Reverb when working in Renoise. I’ve been trying to refine my approach a bit with reverb lately, and am curious to contrast with the approach of other users.
I’m more interested in Reverb as a mix tool, rather than as a wild effect – that is, reverb used for a sense of space , not reverb for an obvious spaced-out wash, etc. (because the latter is quite easy to achieve, whereas the former is much more difficult to get right, in my experience).
1 - what reverb are you using in renoise to create a sense of space around your instruments? do you ever use the native Renoise reverbs, ‘reverb’ and ‘mpreverb’ ?
2 - when using reverb, are you always putting it on a send track and sending things to it, or are you just inserting it on each channel you want it on?
3 - if you’re using sends, are you also EQ’ing the reverb on the send?
Would love to hear the approach you guys are using and liking. I’d post my specific approach to it…but I don’t really have one currently, I’ve tried numerous different approaches and currently I’m not quite getting the depth / space imaging I’m wanting with it, which is why Id like to discuss it further here. I will say that I own too many reverb plugins, and have realized it’s less about which one and more about how any one of them is used. I’ve got all the Valhalla’s (I honestly find them a little over the top, tbh – I feel like they’re too obvious / loud, and even when dialed in very subtly, they kind of ‘warp’ the sound – it’s hard to describe but I can’t shake it, after tons of testing and trial & error). I also have Arts Acoustic, which I like a lot, and I’ve gotten a lot of good, subtle results from Uhbik-A.
Dont know why, but i always use reverbs as insert effects. I’ve only one big reverb as send for pads, fx and other stuff, but dont use it often. For tiny rooms for drums i try to use the native effects. For the rest i use valhalla shimmer (piano,pads, fx), toraverb (piano, pads, fx, leads, vocals), art acoustic reverb (leads, vocals, sometimes drums,fx).
Personally i like Valhalla Room a lot to create some space. Having it as insert or send effect is not really right or wrong either way. Back then Reverbs were quite CPU heavy, so having it as send simply saved quite some CPU cycles. Depending on the music you create limiting your reverbs used in a song can help greatly to get a coherent and clean mix. Too many different reverbs tend to wash out the final result. As for EQ i’m using it rarely on a reverb channel, but a HP filter can help with clarity and making it sound a bit more subtle, especially if more reverbs in a project are used. Also keep in mind samples may have reverb baked in, which you can counter with envelopes and also synths often have own effects which you may check. It helps for example to have a single reverb for drums and maybe another for synths or athmos. Nothing stops you from adding just another one because you want that snare to have that little extra from the other sounds. In the end just go by what sounds good for you. I have a ton of reverbs, including Reaktor ensembles and when going for ambient athmos i tend to stack them even to get more flavors or special fx out of them. As for the Renoise included ones i think they’re pretty bad, they tend to ring easy, especially on drum sounds. They can work okish for synths or athmos or when used as special effect when you want that metallic sound.
Pretty much use only the built-in Renoise reverb. Typically on vocals (sometimes percussion stuff).
Only different thing I do is set up a send channel with an eq and reverb to scoop out a section in the upper range before applying the reverb. Then send the vox track there but keep the vox track output as well, and blend them. Idea is to avoid the reverb sounds from overshadowing the upper vocal range (for clarity).
I love the convolver with hardware reverb IRs. For room/depth I like to put to a seperate send without dry signal, only wet, so it can be eqed and effected (pre/post chorus/phaser/delay) seperately. It also makes pre distortion/exciter possible, so the reverb responds to more harmonics than fed in, it can become more “shiny” this way. Then on pre mastering a very subtle room with little tail, to glue all sounds and room cues together into the same space. Stereo width control for each reverb step is another important thing to consider, so the whole image is balanced out. I like to try to use a different reverb for each instrument or part of the instrument, sculpting something I have in mind.
I use many standard reverbs in Renoise + Convolver in 2 or more send channels , then , using a multiband sender, i can control the amount space around my instruments
Many years ago, somebody on this board shared a list of their personal “rules” for keeping a mix clean.
One of them, which surprised me at the time, was “never use reverb, only delay. Preferably BPM-synced.”
I was skeptical at first but gave it a try…and I loved the results! Indeed, in most situations delay can do the job just as well as reverb but keeps the mix cleaner. Plus with renoise you can roll your own reverb-ish-delay sends by combining the multi-delay with EQ and other DSP. Most digital reverbs are just complicated delay lines anyway.
That said, you can do some really cool things with reverb that you can’t with delay, especially with convolution reverb + IRs. I think if you want a “realistic” sounding reverb, convolution is definitely the way to go.
TL:DR to answer your questions:
1 - Usually when I want a sense of space for an instrument I use delay instead of reverb.
2 - I almost always use sends for more flexibility.
3 - I almost always put a low cut filter on my reverb/delay sends to avoid the low-end getting too muddy.
In the past I’ve use Ambience (Donationware) by Magnus of Smartelectronix and also the first version (free) of Christian Knufinke’s SIR. I occasionally use the built-in mpReverb too. I often use reverb on snares, pads, crashes, but also on leads or melodic elements. It really depends on the sound you’re going for to be honest. If it’s space you want, try panning and delay as has already been suggested.
I usually use the reverb on a send track unless I only want it as an effect on one sound.
Coming from Logic where the reverbs are touted as being as good or better than high end 3rd party reverbs, it was jarring at first to have no workable reverb in Renoise. I eventually figured out that I could use FM8 FX’s reverb, as it—while not as good as Logic’s Space and Chroma reverbs—is far better than Renoise native reverb when it comes to getting an airy/big sound.
@EETTTEE There are a lot of good free reverbs available out there if you need to move beyond your FM8 method. Togu Audio Line / TAL has a few totally free, very usable reverbs, among others…
I have other options but i tend to only use the native reverb options in renoise. I think they’re great.
I do alter/process them if needed though.
I almost always use a chorus (as a pitch modulator) on the reverb placed on a send. Having a HP/LP filter before the verb makes it easier to tune it as well.
There are many tricks to use, which I really enjoy doing. It triggers the creativity!
Im quite a novice with mix and mastering, EQing only-wet reverbs on send tracks and so on, but Im a big fan of convolver on national park setting on the master track.
Usually with the normal reverb and mpreverb I set them to mono, and very small room size, a lot of dampening, with only a small amount of wet.