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Osc (open Sound Control) An Alternative To Midi


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#1 Guest_choice@ibook_*

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 07:16

[foreword]
yesterday i had the idea to route renoise's output in to supercollider3 i'm not going to say what i used because i know that if i did it would be a demo work around and eventually might be blocked (and i really dont want that, since i am writing a patch to use in sc3)
good thing is, is this cant be done in windows that i know of (yet) but ios possible in linux.
basically what i was doing was routing renoise's output into sc3's input then running a granualizer and a few effects like pitch shifter, buffer manipulaters & comb filters. it turned out to work very well and was very fun to do. then i had the idea:

OpenSound Control ("OSC") is a protocol for communication among computers, sound synthesizers, and other multimedia devices that is optimized for modern networking technology and has been used in many application areas.
OSC Features

* Open-ended, dynamic,URL-style symbolic naming scheme
* Numeric and symbolic arguments to messages
* Pattern matching language to specify multiple targets of a single message
* High resolution time tags
* "Bundles" of messages whose effects must occur simultaneously
* Query system to dynamically find out the capabilities of an OSC server and get documentation

http://www.cnmat.ber...enSoundControl/


ive looked around for a vsti that could perform this function, but since the abbreviation for oscillator is also osc it creates a problem there. so i dont know yet if there is a plugikn for this, if there was i dont think it would be able to communicate properly which leads to the reason why i write this.
there is already a few programs that have an osc implementation so far reaktor, bidule, sc3, max/msp, pd....etc (a good but not so current list is on the site, along with source code)
imagine the possiblities......(theres so many....)
theres osc to midi translators on the web also, http://www.mat.ucsb....amakr/illposed/
in those links you can find source code to implement osc to midi, it also states that midi to osc is in the works. there also might be others that im not aware of yet.
having this inside renoise would lift renoise into an area that the others would eventually would want to follow. the possiblities are nearly endless with this technology, pairing renoise & OSC together should be in the future of renoise.
inevitably this will be around for awhile. this could also be a solution to things such as "live renoising". another thing would be that all of the keyboard & control surfaces would still be usable using the translators, even be able to finally use the nrpn messages an doing away with device conflicts by designating certain clients their own rules.
eventually the need for midi inside renoise will be nonexistent using osc to midi and midi to osc translation, this could also be a possible fix for the sync problems renosie is experiencing.

this would also be something we would boast about. B)

#2 vV

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 08:13

I found the following open source links:
http://osw.sourceforge.net/

http://dssi.sourceforge.net/RFC.html

It is better to google for opensound than OSC.
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#3 laurencedavies

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 08:26

While those in the know say that osc is the future (and they're right), it won't act as a replacement for midi by any means for quite some time. Most hardware sound modules/fx still use midi, and I haven't seen any in the consumer range that use a hardware form of osc.
True, some form of osc over IP would be possible, but it is really a misuse of the protocol.
Also, I think the sync problems renoise currently has with midi will be solved once renoise's timing resolution becomes more flexible.

I'm interested though... (slightly off-topic) what granulising stuff are you doing in supercollider? I've managed to open that program, but never had the time to use it in depth.

Edit:
Hmm... misread your original argument. It's Friday afternoon over here, please disregard what I wrote above.

#4 escii

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 16:24

the problem is nobody managed to replace the 30 year old midi standard.
Yamaha developped MLan which is more user friendly and can do a lot of things better. But they didn`t manage to make it the new standard although they own steinberg as well - which could be used to trnasport the advantages of Mlan to many musicians all over the world.

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#5 choice

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 22:20

@laurencedavies

[i am going to be emailing you today about instajungle]

once i make sure the guis are working right and clean up the patches ive been playing with i will post them here for everyone to play with. i'll also either c/p or write a quickstart with lots of links to furthering sc3 knowledge.

also if you have more than one sound card you can route renoise to be previewed (like a deejay) i'm actually looking for another that has the same abilities as the echo indigo io only in a firewire interface. because having the ability to have 8 virtual channels gives you the ability to mix in or out certain channels from the input into supercollider (which means you could have only certain channels going into sc3) so you could have only drums being manipulated while the rest is the true output from renoise.

#6 laurencedavies

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 15:40

@laurencedavies

[i am going to be emailing you today about instajungle]

once i make sure the guis are working right and clean up the patches ive been playing with i will post them here for everyone to play with. i'll also either c/p or write a quickstart with lots of links to furthering sc3 knowledge.

also if you have more than one sound card you can route renoise to be previewed (like a deejay) i'm actually looking for another that has the same abilities as the echo indigo io only in a firewire interface. because having the ability to have 8 virtual channels gives you the ability to mix in or out certain channels from the input into supercollider (which means you could have only certain channels going into sc3) so you could have only drums being manipulated while the rest is the true output from renoise.

Nice, you're doing the hard work for the rest of us :). I wonder if sc3 can be used/converted to a vst or auplugin :ph34r:
re instajungle- just use it if you like it. if you have a problem with it (i know the reverse is a bit unuseable at the moment- I'll slice-sync it in the next version) just email, or if you have a suggestion, ditto. I'm thinking of improvements for it, and will continue it's development and other plugins like it whenever I get the chance. I wish I had more time for this :)

btw why do you need another sound card? wouldn't you just use the aggregate devices in tiger in conjunction with soundflower?

#7 hryx

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 19:59

Very old topic, but I thought I'd add my 1 point for native OSC support in Renoise. But not scrapping MIDI, of course.

Edited by Diptera, 18 November 2008 - 20:00.

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#8 machinestatic

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 21:16

Aw, reading this reminded me that Instajungle doesn't work in Renoise (on my Mac, at least). :(

#9 Syflom

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:22

+1 for the future

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#10 Suva

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:40

When talking about OSC then you also should consider the fact that it goes far beyond MIDI. Not only can you use it to send notes, but also other kind of events and metadata. Taking it step further it could be used to control all the features in Renoise, including pattern editor, pattern sequencer effect parameters, playback and stop, etc.

#11 choice

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 14:25

Very old topic, but I thought I'd add my 1 point for native OSC support in Renoise. But not scrapping MIDI, of course.


what is quite nice about the specs of OSC is that MIDI is also retained within OSC

#12 ZooTooK

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 14:58

I'm not aware of any "proper" (whatever that means) sequencers with OSC support today. MAX/MSP, Reaktor and Bidule support OSC (to various extent) have some sequencing capabilities though...

#13 hryx

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 21:32

what is quite nice about the specs of OSC is that MIDI is also retained within OSC

Oh cool, I didn't know that!

I'm not aware of any "proper" (whatever that means) sequencers with OSC support today. MAX/MSP, Reaktor and Bidule support OSC (to various extent) have some sequencing capabilities though...

Fer serious. Max/MSP is amazing but is clearly not designed for easy song-writing.
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#14 101010

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 19:42

Man...

 

BETTER, STRONGER, FASTER!

We have the TECHNOLOGY!



#15 Barrett Wang

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 02:41

Midi usually has 127 resolution on a slider, knob, wheel etc.

 

Does OSC have higher resolution than that...1024?



#16 Edward012

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 22:10

the issue is no one figured out how to supplant the 30 year old midi standard. 
 
Yamaha developped MLan which is more easy to understand and can improve. Be that as it may, they didn`t figure out how to make it the new standard despite the fact that they possess steinberg too - which could be utilized to trnasport the upsides of Mlan to numerous performers everywhere throughout the world.


#17 danoise

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:49

@Garret: yep, usually MIDI is 7 bit, so 128 possible values. It can do 14 bit too, but this is really just a hack if you ask me, and support in DAW (including Renoise) is sketchy. Still, I've added this 14-bit stuff to several of my tools, where it works fairly well.

But with OSC, it is an entirely different story. Here, you can transmit not only integer (whole) numbers, but also floating point values, text or even MIDI messages. So there is practically no restraints on the value and it's universally understood by the receiver.

The problem is mostly that you have to agree on what is being transmitted and how it should be interpreted. For instance, there is no 'note-on' event defined by the OSC protocol, you'd have to ensure that things are working in 'both ends'. Since this is very much something you take for granted with MIDI, I think that's why we see it being used everywhere still, 30+ years later.

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