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Multiedit : Multi Columns & Multi Tracks


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#1 ViZiON

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 13:37

Hi Renoise Team,

I don't understand why "multiedit" option isn't here in Renoise 2 ??? Please could you add a "multiedit columns" and a "multiedit tracks" so that we can compose quickly...

Thank you,

iNTERLuNe

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#2 dblue

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 14:46

Please could you add a "multiedit columns" and a "multiedit tracks" so that we can compose quickly...

Can you please explain exactly what you mean by "multiedit columns" and "multiedit tracks"?

Your very short post text and screenshot really do not provide any useful information.

#3 ViZiON

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 15:17

Can you please explain exactly what you mean by "multiedit columns" and "multiedit tracks"?

Your very short post text and screenshot really do not provide any useful information.


Hi dblue,

OK, no problem. In facts, when I press the spacebar to enable edit mode, I would like to edit notes in multi-columns or/and multi-tracks. Do you understand ? (multiedit exists in FastTracker 2 and Milkytracker).

Greetings & Thank you,

iNTERLuNe

#4 keith303

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 15:28

i used ft2 for quite some time, but it seems this feature so well hidden that i never stumbled across it.
but when i get you right, you want to enter pattern data into multiple channels at the same time - redundantly?

#5 dblue

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 15:36

Do you understand ?

I have a basic idea, but I don't understand you fully 100%, because you haven't provided enough details.

When you're making a feature request/suggestion, it's really important that you describe exactly what the feature is, how it looks, how it behaves, etc.

What type of edits are you talking about?
Do you simply want to record many notes at once (ie. chords)?
Do you want to change the volume/pan/delay values for several notes at once?
Do you want something else?

How exactly do you select the notes?
How exactly do you select the columns or tracks you want to edit?

Etc.

It's not fair to simply say "check out FT2 and MilkyTracker" and then expect us to figure it out. I haven't used FT2 in 10 years, and I don't have time to get DosBox and other software just to make it run on my Windows 7 system. I've also never used MilkyTracker before, and I don't have time to install it and try to figure out exactly what you want.

You are the one making the feature request, so you need to help us understand exactly what this thing is, how it works, why it would be useful, etc.

Does that sound fair? :)

#6 Djeroek

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 19:30

Isn't this already possible if you use a midi-keyboard/controller assigning tracks in the 'midi input' dialog in the 'Instrument Settings'?

Unfortunately this doesn't work for the computer keyboard.

#7 ViZiON

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:39

Hi dblue & Jonas,

I understand but I am a little French who don't speak english in audio langage... LOL ! So, I understand that you want concerning the improvements for Renoise 2...

1°) I press spacebar to be in mode edit.
2°) I add one note.
3°) When I add a second note, it will be added under the first note in the same column and the same track.

My idea : When I add a second note, I would like that it will be added under the first note in the next column or/and track automatically. Idem for the volume & panning will be a very good idea :-)

Why ? Beacause it allows to add notes quickly in mode multiedit. For me, it is THE IMPROVEMENT TO DO whose Renoise Team wait to do since Renoise v2.50 :-(

Thank you & Greetings,

iNTERLuNe

#8 ViZiON

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:49

Dear Renoise Team,

I need this improvement in the next version of Renoise 2.80...

Thank you & Greetings,

iNTERLuNe

#9 kazakore

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:11

We have:

Note_Keys to enter Note in same Column at Edit Step
Shift+Note_Keys to enter Notes on same Line in different Columns. (Chords)

Unfortunately every other modifier key combination has uses in combination with the Note_Keys. Try and find a free one for letter R for example.

Surely this could be made a toggle option with Scripting though??

#10 dblue

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 13:23

When I add a second note, I would like that it will be added under the first note in the next column or/and track automatically.

Thanks for a more detailed description. I now understand what you've been talking about.


I need this improvement in the next version of Renoise 2.80...

If it's so important to you, why did you wait until the very last moment to bring it up? We're basically at the end of the beta testing phase now, and we have pretty much finalised all new features. It's very unlikely that we will add any other new features at this late stage. Sorry.
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#11 esaruoho

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 13:24

Surely this could be made a toggle option with Scripting though??


Yup. Incidentally, this meshes in with this little scripting idea i've had for a while, which is:
- going into "note column edit mode using delay column automatically."
- means: when you hit 8 notes, and you are in LPB1, your 8 notes are placed to the first row (00) of the track, and the 8 notes are placed into 8 note columns. notecolumns 2 to 8 have an automatically created, sensible, delay column value.
- this means you can get really quick runs of notes even with lower bpm/LPB rates, and you don't have to input the note delay column values by hand yourself everytime you do it.
- so it's kind of like "added resolution", or "sub-row zoom", but without Renoise having to be changed in any way.

So when the mode is off, you track as usual, when the scripted mode is on, you are accessing exact "sub-row steps" by default.

i guess my issues with scripting this were: 1) i didn't know which note delay values to use 2) i wasn't entirely sure how a script could be run everytime a note is input into the pattern editor with edit_mode=on.

i still think it'd be useful, and it seems strangely similar to what ViZiON is .. shall we say.. trying to describe.

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#12 ViZiON

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 14:47

Dear dBlue,

I don't understand what you say. I love Renoise & LITTLE IMPROVEMENTS won't see ever the day for Renoise 2, why ? YES, Renoise 2 is powerful ! YES, Renoise 2 is the best audio tracker ! Since Renoise v1.91, I post my ideas...

Thank you for your help,

iNTERLuNe

#13 esaruoho

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 16:05

I don't understand what you say. I love Renoise & LITTLE IMPROVEMENTS won't see ever the day for Renoise 2, why ? YES, Renoise 2 is powerful ! YES, Renoise 2 is the best audio tracker ! Since Renoise v1.91, I post my ideas...
Thank you for your help,


he told you: where were you when 2.8b1 was announced? we are now at 2.8b8, and it is too late to make massive changes. 2.8 will be released soon.

you seem to not understand that. why? how can that be?
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#14 vV

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 21:29

you seem to not understand that. why? how can that be?


I think he will understand this as much as we do understand him but i hope Google translate did at least the job:
"J'ai besoin de cette amélioration dans la prochaine version de Renoise 2.80 ..."

Si c'est si important pour vous, pourquoi avez-vous attendre la dernière minute pour le mettre en place? Nous sommes fondamentalement à la fin de la phase de test bêta maintenant, et nous avons à peu près finalisé toutes les nouvelles fonctionnalités. Il est très peu probable que nous allons ajouter d'autres caractéristiques nouvelles à ce stade tardif. Désolé.
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#15 esaruoho

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 21:52

I think he will understand this as much as we do understand him but i hope Google translate did at least the job:
"J'ai besoin de cette amélioration dans la prochaine version de Renoise 2.80 ..."

Si c'est si important pour vous, pourquoi avez-vous attendre la dernière minute pour le mettre en place? Nous sommes fondamentalement à la fin de la phase de test bêta maintenant, et nous avons à peu près finalisé toutes les nouvelles fonctionnalités. Il est très peu probable que nous allons ajouter d'autres caractéristiques nouvelles à ce stade tardif. Désolé.


i don't think he'll get that, because the "end of beta testing phase" does not mean 2.8.0 to him, it means "Renoise 2" to him. something which he is constantly referring to. If the sentence had said "we are nearing the end of Renoise version 2.8.0 beta testing period", he might be able to comprehend that there might be a new version eventually. im not sure he understands the difference between 2 and 2.8.

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#16 ViZiON

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:00

Hi,

Vv : Yes, your French isn't so bad ;-) Sorry for my bad English... I know that I posted so late. I am registered for Renoise since the version 1.91 and I don't understand why little improvements isn't being made before BIG improvements in Renoise 2. It is the choice of Renoise Team !

esaruoho : No, I know the difference between v2 and v2.80 : ONLY BIG IMPROVEMENTS and bugs fixed. I know that it is important for improving Renoise 2 (news, audio, faster, etc) but the community is important too for the little improvements. I am sure that if you answer "Renoisers" about "multi edit note by column/track", the most part of people were happy...

For me, the negative points of Renoise 2 are the followings :

- Mismanagement of parameters colors.
- Missing Keyboard Shortcuts.
- Missing Little tips/improvements.
- Missing a guide to learn all effects in Renoise 2 Video ?

Greetings,

iNTERLuNe
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#17 esaruoho

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:18

- Missing Keyboard Shortcuts.


which ones?
i could say there's keyboard shortcuts missing from renoise too, but the renoise devteam will not be able to understand WHICH shortcuts are missing, unless if you tell them which ones are missing! so, which ones are missing? please try and understand that none of the renoise devteam are going to travel to france to ask for a list.

so make a list for them on the forum. instead of just saying "missing keyboard shortcuts".

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#18 ViZiON

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:38

For example Here :

http://www.renoise.c...ard-config-key/

#19 esaruoho

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 15:11

For example Here :

http://www.renoise.c...ard-config-key/



and do you have any other keyboard shortcut things you want done, other than those? i mean, is THAT all? that's hardly even 20 keyboard shortcuts.



do you have more keyboard shortcuts you need?

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#20 kazakore

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 19:35

Yup. Incidentally, this meshes in with this little scripting idea i've had for a while, which is:
- going into "note column edit mode using delay column automatically."
- means: when you hit 8 notes, and you are in LPB1, your 8 notes are placed to the first row (00) of the track, and the 8 notes are placed into 8 note columns. notecolumns 2 to 8 have an automatically created, sensible, delay column value.
- this means you can get really quick runs of notes even with lower bpm/LPB rates, and you don't have to input the note delay column values by hand yourself everytime you do it.
- so it's kind of like "added resolution", or "sub-row zoom", but without Renoise having to be changed in any way.

So when the mode is off, you track as usual, when the scripted mode is on, you are accessing exact "sub-row steps" by default.

i guess my issues with scripting this were:


1) i didn't know which note delay values to use


256/#note_Columns? Set the amount of Note Columns first and it evenly distributes them.

2) i wasn't entirely sure how a script could be run everytime a note is input into the pattern editor with edit_mode=on.


Couldn't say off-hand but image it would be easy enough. Some kind of Pattern/Track Notifier?

#21 esaruoho

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 19:41

256/#note_Columns? Set the amount of Note Columns first and it evenly distributes them.


i dont actually really understand what this means?
(edit)
while i can kinda understand FF/Notecolumn amount, that doesn't really bring me any closer to, well, getting numbers out to it and getting it to place them in the pattern editor, maybe even by simle brute force, so they're autogenerated (this could really work, you know)..


Couldn't say off-hand but image it would be easy enough. Some kind of Pattern/Track Notifier?


sure, maybe a notifier, but that would get confused with other pattern-input-based-scripts. (such as my sampler, which after recording a sample, places a note in the selected_track_index, which will start playing during playback.

so these would be mutually destructive, unless if there was some method of ditching a notifier.

i just don't get notifiers, i'm not entirely sure if i ever really will. luckily there's lots of other possibilities for scripting, which don't require a notifier. so i can kinda do some things vaguely, and not know much about the pattern iterator or notifiers.

i suspect what vizion is after is the pattern iterator stuff - i've kind of looked at it with my grep method and didn't really see much i could make use of (translates to : i didn't really understand anyofit)

Edited by esaruoho, 29 February 2012 - 19:42.

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#22 kazakore

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 13:54

i dont actually really understand what this means?
(edit)
while i can kinda understand FF/Notecolumn amount, that doesn't really bring me any closer to, well, getting numbers out to it and getting it to place them in the pattern editor, maybe even by simle brute force, so they're autogenerated (this could really work, you know)..


My assumption was based on you want your tool to pretty much do sub-line Edit Steps, so each step is equal. Beyond that I went as far as assuming a simple way to decide amount of sub-divisions would be equal to the number of visible note columns in a track.

Each line has 256 possible values of Delay.
#note_columns = number of visible note columns
note_column = current note column.

Delay value per column would be: (note_column-1)*#note_column/256




sure, maybe a notifier, but that would get confused with other pattern-input-based-scripts. (such as my sampler, which after recording a sample, places a note in the selected_track_index, which will start playing during playback.

so these would be mutually destructive, unless if there was some method of ditching a notifier.

i just don't get notifiers, i'm not entirely sure if i ever really will. luckily there's lots of other possibilities for scripting, which don't require a notifier. so i can kinda do some things vaguely, and not know much about the pattern iterator or notifiers.

i suspect what vizion is after is the pattern iterator stuff - i've kind of looked at it with my grep method and didn't really see much i could make use of (translates to : i didn't really understand anyofit)


I can't claim to really understand Notifiers all that well myself but I do know you should be removing them when they're not in use. This option you already said would be a Toggle, so only if you have two tools/pieces of script active at a time which may be looking for the same types of actions should you get conflicts.

#23 esaruoho

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 15:52

Hi Renoise Team,

I don't understand why "multiedit" option isn't here in Renoise 2 ??? Please could you add a "multiedit columns" and a "multiedit tracks" so that we can compose quickly...
Posted Image
Thank you,

iNTERLuNe


I finally figured out what this picture is about. and I agree! This would be amazing. press '4', and your pc keyboard input, gets mapped, based on "editstep", to 4 note columns.

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#24 mxb

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 15:58

If I understand this correctly it would automatically cycle through the note columns within a track after each note entered?

If so, this could be scripted:

Hook into the pattern track change notifier and each time a new note is added, increment selected_note_column (wrapping around by the number of note columns)

The tool could also set the number of note columns when activated.
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#25 esaruoho

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 16:03

Hook into the pattern track change notifier and each time a new note is added, increment selected_note_column (wrapping around by the number of note columns)


it's probably not

renoise.song().patterns[].tracks[].is_empty, _observable

is it?

or
renoise.song().selected_track_observable ?

Edited by esaruoho, 01 March 2012 - 16:05.

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