Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Live Legato/Portamento


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Paurini

Paurini

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rotorua, Aotearoa
  • Interests:Funk

Posted 30 January 2014 - 00:49

Can we get some live legato and portamento options in our instruments please :)
1: Intel i7-4700M 3.4Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. 2: Intel i7-3770 3.9Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr. Renoise 3.

#2 vV

vV

    God's or Borg's Chief and Ruler of All Species

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16855 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 30 January 2014 - 13:14

Can we get some live legato and portamento options in our instruments please Posted Image


To what point should this be narrowed down? because "Some" legato and portamento options are already available.
-assign a macro button to the specific operators you want to modify, then midi map the macro dial
-Use the Gxx effect-command option in the phrase editor for pitch glides.
Vv....


cpu Intel Core i7-4820K @3.70GHz
chipset Intel X79 chipset
mem 32 Gb 2400Mhz
os Win 7 64-bit SP1, DirectX 11
audio ESI ESP1010e - > Driver rev:2.0.6.0
video nVidia Geforce GTX780 - > Driver rev:335.23


Renoise Official Manual

#3 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 30 January 2014 - 16:10

I guess you are talking about a single-voice version of legato?
Polyphonic legato exist too, but it's hard to define exactly how it should work (many different implementations), depending on playing style etc.

So, if kept simple, the "Mono" button could basically become a switch between "Mono" and "Legato"
(because otherwise you might think that legato did in fact work on multiple voices...)?

Legato could also be defined as allowing for a phrase to transpose / continue playing when multiple keys are pressed.
This is being discussed here: http://forum.renoise...-phrase-editor/

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#4 Paurini

Paurini

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rotorua, Aotearoa
  • Interests:Funk

Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:39

To what point should this be narrowed down? because "Some" legato and portamento options are already available.
-assign a macro button to the specific operators you want to modify, then midi map the macro dial
-Use the Gxx effect-command option in the phrase editor for pitch glides.

To be specific - When attempting to perform and/or record a legato action only a single voice is available.
There's the choice of mono or polyphonic instruments however; when mono - let there be an option for legato/portamento.

afta8's awesome doofer solves this however it would be convenient if it was 'built-in' to the sampler as with most samplers :) although i would hope the glide pattern effect will remain.
1: Intel i7-4700M 3.4Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. 2: Intel i7-3770 3.9Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr. Renoise 3.

#5 Paurini

Paurini

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rotorua, Aotearoa
  • Interests:Funk

Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:06

I guess you are talking about a single-voice version of legato?
Polyphonic legato exist too, but it's hard to define exactly how it should work (many different implementations), depending on playing style etc.

So, if kept simple, the "Mono" button could basically become a switch between "Mono" and "Legato"
(because otherwise you might think that legato did in fact work on multiple voices...)?

Legato could also be defined as allowing for a phrase to transpose / continue playing when multiple keys are pressed.
This is being discussed here: http://forum.renoise...-phrase-editor/

Sorry, yes i didn't expain it very well.
You got it - For example the mono switch could maybe have 6 states being Legato, Mono, 2, 4, 6, 8 voice options. Hope this makes sense!

Edit: I think poly legato is what i'm looking for. If i hold a single note then hold another one it glides to the most recent note and so on and so fourth.

Edited by Paurini, 04 February 2014 - 11:11.

1: Intel i7-4700M 3.4Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. 2: Intel i7-3770 3.9Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr. Renoise 3.

#6 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 04 February 2014 - 13:12

I think poly legato is what i'm looking for. If i hold a single note then hold another one it glides to the most recent note and so on and so fourth.

Poly legato is a tricky subject, but to keep things simple, legato could be thought of as a real-time implementation of the glide command. Essentially, allow one note to glide into another without retriggering envelopes. Behind the scenes, Renoise could then use note columns to keep things nice and tidy, also to have a way of recording legato (using the 'instant' GFF command, I guess).

Related to this: if a note containing a phrase is triggered, and you enter a new note outside the range of the phrase, currently you will stop the phrase from playing. I suggest that the phrase is transposed, since it originally was triggered from a "phrasified" key.
This is analogous to how samples work: if you have a multi-sampled instrument with unique samples mapped to each key, using glide to slide from one key to another will cause the sample mapped to the first key to play transposed. But if you release the second key and trigger it again, the sample mapped to the second key is played - it all boils down to the first key being pressed.

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#7 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 04 February 2014 - 20:03

Thinking a bit more about this polyphonic legato...

Fact is: when playing, you never hit keys _exactly_ at the same time. This means that polyphonic legato actually has a fundamental problem: when will Renoise 'know' that you wish to play a chord, as opposed to a series of notes being played in quick succession?

But then, you might have quantize enabled, in which case you would be able to record chords - notes that arrive at precisely the same time in the pattern. This would at least open up the *possibility* for poly-legato.

But the complexities doesn't stop there. Let us for a moment imagine that we hit C+4 and D#4 "simultaneously" with quantize enabled.
Then, these would be equally likely results:

C-4 + D#4
- or -
D#4 + C-4

But, what note would then become the target for a polyphonic legato action (such an action would be to pressing G-4 after a small while, but still while holding C-4 and D#4) ?
If we imagine that the 'most recent note' was targeted, like suggested by Paurini, pressing G-4 would either take over from the D#4 OR the C-4. But, wouldn't this seem kind of arbitrary, since we actually pressed the original notes almost at the same time? I personally wouldn't be able to perform in such a way, I am much too sloppy in my timing.

Maybe it would be better if the nearest note (in terms of pitch) was targeted? In the example above, it would mean that the D#4 was targeted in both cases. Perhaps a bit more consistent.

To sum up: I'm very interested in hearing from people with hands-on experience performing with such a thing! (Mono) legato is a rather simple concept to implement & understand - poly-legato, on the other hand, seems to me like the opposite.

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#8 Paurini

Paurini

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rotorua, Aotearoa
  • Interests:Funk

Posted 05 February 2014 - 05:43

Poly legato is a tricky subject, but to keep things simple, legato could be thought of as a real-time implementation of the glide command. Essentially, allow one note to glide into another without retriggering envelopes. Behind the scenes, Renoise could then use note columns to keep things nice and tidy, also to have a way of recording legato (using the 'instant' GFF command, I guess).

Note columns that are visible could somewhat be important as in reality we need to see the 'overlap' of notes.
A portamento control of some sort could determine the amount of glide maybe.

Related to this: if a note containing a phrase is triggered, and you enter a new note outside the range of the phrase, currently you will stop the phrase from playing. I suggest that the phrase is transposed, since it originally was triggered from a "phrasified" key.

'Transposed' automagically? That makes sense.

Fact is: when playing, you never hit keys _exactly_ at the same time. This means that polyphonic legato actually has a fundamental problem: when will Renoise 'know' that you wish to play a chord, as opposed to a series of notes being played in quick succession?

Per note expressions is a fairly new thing as far as i know? however i am not sure how individual notes can be accommodated with glide.
If done right, it could produce some interesting features though :)/>/>/>

Edited by Paurini, 05 February 2014 - 05:43.

1: Intel i7-4700M 3.4Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. 2: Intel i7-3770 3.9Ghz Max, 8GB RAM. Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr. Renoise 3.