Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Sampler keyzone and velocity crossfade


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 fladd

fladd

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:37

Well, as the title says. This would enable smoother transitions between samples.
  • migloJE and ffx like this

#2 vV

vV

    God's or Borg's Chief and Ruler of All Species

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16855 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:35

You can also accomplish this by using the modulation chains for each sample, but i suspect you probably want a different attack and fade-out value for the first triggered and last triggered sample in the chain... (this would require some kind of timer idea:process chain x (fast attack rate) if timer is not yet set, process chain y if triggered within 500msecs (crossfade), else process chain z (other decay / fade out transition))
Vv....


cpu Intel Core i7-4820K @3.70GHz
chipset Intel X79 chipset
mem 32 Gb 2400Mhz
os Win 7 64-bit SP1, DirectX 11
audio ESI ESP1010e - > Driver rev:2.0.6.0
video nVidia Geforce GTX780 - > Driver rev:335.23


Renoise Official Manual

#3 fladd

fladd

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 16 February 2014 - 21:08

A nice article explaining the idea in more detail: http://www.soundonso...lostscience.htm

#4 danoise

danoise

    Probably More God or Borg Than Human Member

  • Renoise Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6171 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:wildlife + urban trekking

Posted 16 February 2014 - 23:47

You can come a long way with creative use of modulation devices. For instance, I have created instruments that had a "quiet" velocity layer, gradually fading out as the "loud" layer took over.

This was achieved by having the quiet layer ignore the velocity as input from notes (disabling "VEL>VOL" in the keyzone), and then implementing my own method for tracking the velocity consisting of two velocity-tracking devices: one for (slightly) fading the volume in "from the bottom" and another one for (strongly) fading the volume out "at the top".

The second layer - the loud one - was using normal VEL>VOL tracking, but with an additional velocity tracker for making the volume fade in only when above a certain threshold (to make the transition more abrupt).

The same principle can be applied not only to velocity but also pitch, but it does have it's limitations: complex setups would be a pain to work with. A simple setup like the one I described is done in a couple of minutes, though.

@fladd: I read the article you linked to, and it warns about some of the pitfalls related to this technique: if you are not careful, you might introduce some very serious problems with phase, or muddy the sound. So this technique would best be applied to real, acoustic recordings or samples with complex timbres (avoid stuff like sine waves unless you really want trouble).

Tracking with Stuff. API wishlist | Soundcloud


#5 fladd

fladd

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:32

You can come a long way with creative use of modulation devices. For instance, I have created instruments that had a "quiet" velocity layer, gradually fading out as the "loud" layer took over.

This was achieved by having the quiet layer ignore the velocity as input from notes (disabling "VEL>VOL" in the keyzone), and then implementing my own method for tracking the velocity consisting of two velocity-tracking devices: one for (slightly) fading the volume in "from the bottom" and another one for (strongly) fading the volume out "at the top".

The second layer - the loud one - was using normal VEL>VOL tracking, but with an additional velocity tracker for making the volume fade in only when above a certain threshold (to make the transition more abrupt).

The same principle can be applied not only to velocity but also pitch, but it does have it's limitations: complex setups would be a pain to work with. A simple setup like the one I described is done in a couple of minutes, though.

@fladd: I read the article you linked to, and it warns about some of the pitfalls related to this technique: if you are not careful, you might introduce some very serious problems with phase, or muddy the sound. So this technique would best be applied to real, acoustic recordings or samples with complex timbres (avoid stuff like sine waves unless you really want trouble).


Yes, this functionality would indeed be used for sampling acoustic instruments. Your example is very nice, but also shows that a more direct way is needed for easier setting up.

#6 migloJE

migloJE

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 February 2014 - 13:59

++++++++++++++++++++++++ VERY WELCOME FEATURE :)/>/>/>) want this too..

Posted Image

Edited by migloJE, 18 February 2014 - 10:13.

  • vV, Djeroek and fladd like this

#7 vV

vV

    God's or Borg's Chief and Ruler of All Species

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16855 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:14

++++++++++++++++++++++++ VERY WELCOME FEATURE Posted Image/>/>/>) want this too..

Posted Image


I think this will be possible as soon as you can layer sample aliasses (layering the same sample multiple times). The ramping however has not much use because keyzones are attached to the key and its velocity.
But if sample aliasses are possible, it will most likely also be fairly easy to write a script to automate cross-section layering.
Vv....


cpu Intel Core i7-4820K @3.70GHz
chipset Intel X79 chipset
mem 32 Gb 2400Mhz
os Win 7 64-bit SP1, DirectX 11
audio ESI ESP1010e - > Driver rev:2.0.6.0
video nVidia Geforce GTX780 - > Driver rev:335.23


Renoise Official Manual

#8 migloJE

migloJE

    Super Advanced Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 February 2014 - 13:22

I think this will be possible as soon as you can layer sample aliasses (layering the same sample multiple times). The ramping however has not much use because keyzones are attached to the key and its velocity.
But if sample aliasses are possible, it will most likely also be fairly easy to write a script to automate cross-section layering.



sample aliases are welcome, but with cross fading you can achieve not only smooth transition from one sample to another but even if you cross fade two samples on one note you can achieve velocity on mixed samples. less you press the midi keyboard key you can hear one sample more you press you can hear another.. etc..

Edited by migloJE, 18 February 2014 - 13:25.


#9 Cas

Cas

    Guruh Motha Fakka is Levitating and Knows Everything About Renoise Member

  • Normal Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1719 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 February 2014 - 13:28

But if sample aliasses are possible, it will most likely also be fairly easy to write a script to automate cross-section layering.

Yeah but that will look crazy stupid, like in the crossfade zone you'll have two zones every key. And the amount/distance of crossfading won't be adjustable at all.

So a good feature request, probably more for 3.1 or so, is 1. velocity-domain layer crossfading and 2. key-domain layer crossfading.
  • migloJE likes this

music: SoundCloud drumkits: WizzKit no. 01 (thread), 02 (thread), 03 (thread), 04
tutorials: Beat Creators, Drum Synthesis examples
tools: download@box, info@blog, fork@git, discuss@forum
___________

BCF2000, LP S, MPK, nPad2, nKtrl2, NI KA6, Vortex, SP-404SX

Renoise, NI Reaktor