A Serious Shortcoming In Automation

I’m wondering why I’m not able to do sharp changes in the automation editor if using any other curve than points. basically, if you have a point in automation somewhere the closest you can set the next point is on the previous or next line - why not the same line, if necessary? Or am I missing some key command or something that’ll allow me to do this?

basically, I want to do this (a Photoshop edit, obviously - problem/“solution” indicated by the red arrow)

This thread will hopefully answer your question. BAM! https://forum.renoise.com/t/making-envelope-curves/23304

Use points.

Well, the thread actually didn’t answer my question. Or it did, about tick-based accuracy, but I still believe this to be something of a problem. Conner_Bw, you advise me to use points, however the kind of curve represented over there would be impossible to achieve with points as well, as you wouldn’t get the smoothness of the curve.

Sure, the new ability to vastly improve note resolution helps somewhat, but it’s a bit annoying to do that (since it makes the actual space of lines you work with so huge) if the only thing you need it for in the particular song is th ability to crate sawtooth-shaped envelopes, for instance. And I just tested it, as well, and it didn’t work too good either - having the curve back to 100% cutoff start one line before you want it to be full again - you can really hear it and it’s not what I’m looking for.

ACTUALLY, I just made a workaround - make your patterns as short as you want the length of one “oscillation” of your envelope be, then - for example - make the value at the first line of the pattern 100% then at the end for instance 10% so you have a sawtooth-like curve going down along the whole pattern. Then just loop the patterns. But even so, I find it strange that you can’t achieve the same effect several times within one pattern.

A combination of points and curves would be awesome

As explained above by somebody else in the BAM! link, you do realize that the curve you want is also impossible to achieve, right?

RULES: A curve is represented by interpolating points in space. There can not be two points on one line.

REALITY: Your curve = impossible.

The real solution: A combination of points and curves. Until then, workarounds a plenty.

Conner, your mathematically correct interpretation of ‘curve’ is not necessarily the most useful for artistic purposes.

Renoise could allow multiple points of a curve to fall on the same instant, giving priority to the last point on that instant.

Clearly this will produce ‘clicky’ artifacts in some cases, which could be resolved in 1 of 2 ways:

  1. a smoothing factor on the envelope would sort this out (like inertia on Filter, but applied right on the envelope itself).

  2. Renoise could internally render a little extra audio on both sides of the ‘instantaneous’ change, and do a micro-fade from one to the other (e.g. so a filter would not give off a ‘zip’ or ‘lazer’ effect on the transition). So for a split second, Renoise would be applying the effect twice in parallel on the same ‘input’, and fading from one to the other.

Well, it’s not my interpretation. Up until I read the BAM! link above, I didn’t even think about it.

Also, in the link as explained by IT-Alien and MarvelousMarvin (not me), if you have two points on a vertical line. Which one is the first point?

Make a curve out of the following points:

 * *  

Dont they have numbers? The first point on the line is the point with the next number.
Another solution is to have bezier points.


Yeah, makes sense.


  1. Argh. Sorry for linking to that other thread if the answers there were incorrect. I thought they were right; I figured that if 2 “nodes” in the automation are on two “ticks” next to each other then the diagonal line connecting them would not be interpreted as a gradual change. I also thought 2 “nodes” on the same vertical line would be logically impossible. BUT - I will happily admit that those were just guesses.

  2. I can’t resist any longer and must ask: are you Brothomstates, or just a fan who picked the username? (Either way, whoever you are, I hope there’s a followup to Rktic someday. :) )