About Automation.

Discussing resolution in my other thread, i mentioned some things about the automation also. I thought it would be good dedicating a thread to this subject.

I hardly never use automation. And the main reasons are.

  1. Can’t make any automation for pitchbend. (or very tricky to do it)
  2. Even after increasing the resolution from lines to ticks it’s still to choppy and not acurate enough.
  3. “Points” are snapped to lines and there’s no way to set any ponts between lines.

So i had a few questions to the devs.

  1. Why did you make the automation linked to the lines/ticks in the first place? Wouldnt it be better if it had it’s own resolution and not beeing restricted by lines and ticks?
  2. Why does the points snap to lines? That’s a mystery to me and i dont understand why.
  3. Pitchbend is a thing that almost any softsynth support, so it should be automaticly implemented when available, why isn’t it? Using automated pitchbend for samples would be great too. It would act the same way the envolope in instument editor would, so i don’t know why it’s not implemented. Besides from panning volume and with, there should me more commonly used things availabe as a standard for automation. Pitch, Instrument Envelope Influence. 0-100% using the envelopes from instrument editor. (thereby increasing the resolution of the envelopes would be good too it’s choppy as well) VSTi modulation wheel would be good too.
  4. Is it possible to make a vertical automation device expandable by every track? (expandable like adv. edit.) Then selecting from a dropdown menu wich automation too show. This would give better overview seeing the automation along side the notes instead of having to look at both an x and y axis moving.
  5. Could the automation points be taken out for good? Do they serve any purpose? i would like the option to draw lines, or drawing the curve free-hand without any points as well. (if they are kept) snapping the points to the grid should only be done by holding a key. and then moving then moving the point.

Guess that’s all for now, maybe i will add a few more things as i can think of more =) but that’s the main things i’m missing. =)

experimenting a bit with the instrument envelopes i noticed they are linked to bpm and not to speed wich is odd…

To get the smotheness I want in things I will have to to set the BPM to 500 and speed to 24 instead of BPM 125 and speed 6. Would it be possible to add a multiplier/resolution setting instead then? that does the same thing but still shows the correct bpm.

Wouldnt be that hard to implement i think. Hopefully even possible to add for the final 1.8 release. I dont mind setting these values myself but it could get confusing in the long run. A multiplier would be easier. Maybe this multiplier could have an ‘effect column command’ same as speed and BMP, so you can set the multiplier for a certain part in a pattern for instance.

Happy for any input

the time unit for envelopes (both instrument and automation) is the tick, so it’s not odd at all.

Write a pattern with continuos speed variations and show instrument envelops: you will see the vertical grid changing accordingly

regarding your problems with automations:

  1. the fact that you can’t automate pitchbend (which I also miss) should not be a good reason for not using automations at all
  2. does this occur in rendered files too? which speed/bpm do you use when the result is choppy?

Yes i noticed the grid changing, but not when i changed the speed setting. Just the BPM. Here are some examples using Putchbend in the instrument envelopes. Here you can clearly hear the difference and the steppyness. It’s as steppy as this in the automation as well but harder to hear since i’m changing the volume instead of pitch in those examples.

Pitchbend (using envelopes)

Volume Automation

You have to listen very closely to hear it on the volume examples, but you can hear it, and it shows more depending on what you’re automating and what sound you’re using.

You can clearly hear the steps. It’s distorting the sound making it sound a bit “robotic” or plastic in very quick steps. usually i’m using speed 3 or 6, and BPM between 90-140 …so any of thos combinations gives “choppy” sounds. Multiplying speed setting by 4 for the system would be great. (maybe not shown but in the program itself) Then you would have more ticks per line for even smother automation. And automation points should be snapped to ticks instead of lines, but preferably not snapped at all unless you hold a key.

That would be great even for delay purposes. (another topic)
Why does it work in ticks at all? couldnt automation be nonlinear?

/ cheers

whats with subticks?! mentioned a few times. from my view the easiest solution: look at other trackers with subtick/divider. theres a much more flexible resolution for tracking-effects.
just a subtick- column (not hidden).

Probably a good idea, but i think that’s another topic. For this post just wanted better resolution in the envelopes and automation. Reffering to my previois post with the example clips you can certanly hear the very low tick resolution.

But maybe i just dont get the subtick thing :P I havn’t tryed many trackers. Besides from this one, skale and FT2.