Amen Break

Thanks for the tips, they have definitely given me somethings to think about/ work with!

although…

  1. Compression and limiting. I’ve used it, but I won’t tell anything about it so nobody can blame me if you’re experiments sound like shit. :)

I think with these tips “only” you can be blamed if my experiments sound like shit! ;) :P

With these tips, I expect you to create some masterpiece breaks right now! :lol: :)

Goes without saying ! ;) but please refer to above point in the case of any other event!
:)

But seriously cheers again! :drummer:

why copy when you can innovate?

(made in some minutes in ReNoise using Kontakt and NI studio drumkit #6)

wow man, this reverb is really too much. imho.

Difference and Repetition: Genealogy of a Drum Break

The Winstons’s Amen Brother drum break (along with James Brown’s Funky Drummer) is one of the most sampled in contemporary musical history, almost single-handedly (now that would be amazing…) giving rise to an entire drum and
bass genre after fuelling hip hop only a short musical generation before.

The funk drum break was a crucial point in any funky track in the late 60’s /early 70’s; back in the 50’s Art Blakey had given the drums a new prominence in jazz with his fiery, noisy solos setting new precedence for the drum kit (or traps, itself a relatively recent invention partly due to the rise of radio in the early 20th C and the need for the drummer to be able to play various sound effects as well as various drums - previously there was a drummer to play the bass drum, another to play the snare or a separate percussionist to play cymbals etc).

James Brown’s mid-60’s shift in R&B from the 1 & 3 to the 2 and 4 beat gave birth to a new rhythm - funk - that was a
sexy shuffle (on the good foot) between the straight rock and R&B/soul rhythms of the day. Simultaneously propulsive yet cycling internally, with the added syncopation of ghost/off snare and kick beats between the main counts it seemed to summon up a pre-orgasmic vertigo of endless repetition and relentless forward movement, more in common with Chinese/Taoist sexual practice than the Occidental obsession with climax, the end of desire (an abstract sex machine, as Deleuze and Guattari might have termed it if they had seen James Brown play in Paris in 1971 - between Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus - where a woman from the audience climbed on stage and stripped mid-performance).

Funky Drummer was a culmination of this rhythm, and of the breakbeat. The song seems to be improvised on the spot to fill space on a record or use up studio time, little more than that beat, when James counts down the band to sit out that break, and drummer Clyde Stubblefield just keeps on doing his thang, only more so, little knowing that future generations of samplists were waiting in the wings of history.

The essence of African-American art in the 20th C it has been claimed by Alice Walker, is that it seem relaxed, casual, and sweat-free in order to bely its complexity and distance it from work and the history of slavery; in a word - cool. Tap dance and jazz improvisation epitomised this sensibility which persists right up to Micheal Jackson and Prince, who seemed to glide on a super-human plane while they performed, and a strain of rap’s “I don’t even need to try to be cooler than you and get paid milions of dollars”.

But like Fred Astaire’s skeletal elegance Vs. Gene Kelly’s muscular athleticism (film-musical dancing a mutation of jazz/tap and Irish traditional dance, whose frantic leg-work with a stiff waist and upper torso implied a sublimation of Catholicism-repressed sexuality; frigid rather than cool), the sweaty, thrusting, hard-working side of funk was the flip-side of cool, and James Brown was “The Hardest-Working Man In Showbusiness”, the grunting, sweating sexual alternative to Motown’s sweet, elegant, high-pitched R&B love-pop.

The Funky Drummer break combined both of these strains - not breaking a sweat while working it - in spades, and like any great drummer, Clyde was able to make every shuffling ghost snare and off-kick subtly, almost musically, different in pitch and timbre so that within the four beats - count 'em, that’s all it is, over and over - was a dizzying sensation of rhythmic and sonic variation within a rigid structure, the syncopation fast enough to be just beyond the comprehending brain like a carrot on a stick that keeps the feet dancing and the head nodding while the brain is occupied. Ain’t it funky, now?

Amen Brother did something very similar, with just a few more variations on the shuffle-funk theme, but it was the specifics of the recording, the reverberation of the kick drum and compressed hiss of the ride cymbal, that created more low-end ambience and high-end excitation; the drum equivalent of guitar distortion or Hammond organ Leslie speaker swell.

As appropriated by NWA’s Straight Outta Compton, Mantronix’s King Of The Beats, and Jeep Beat Collective’s Mantronix/Amen-sampling Stop Ya Skemes, the break is classic-but-standard, but the high-end layer of cymbal noise generates that extra tension perfect for thug hop or dancefloor frenzy.

The other crucial difference not apparent in these traditional 4-bar sampled versions is where the original break continues with seismic pauses as the drummer stresses the occasional beat and leaves out the occasional played beat, which seem to (but don’t) leave out a count and create an unexpected temporary black hole or pressure drop on an off-beat - something it shares with Al Green’s I’m Glad You’re Mine intro breakbeat, which proved perfect for Massive Attack’s dub reggae Five Man Army workout on Blue Lines and was all over Timbaland’s earlier reggae-influenced rhythms.

And reggae seems to be the key to the Amen Brother break’s ascendancy to the throne of the drum and bass breakbeat science kingdom. Reggae and dancehall culture were writ large all over early jungle’s ‘Smokin’ Joints’, all frenzied sped-up dancehall snare-shots and manic bad bwoy chat, so fast that the dub bassline worked at half-speed or was reduced to single 808-style boom-drops.

[B] When Amen’s off-kilter beats were - crucially - sped up, then chopped up to re-emphasize that hyper-dub loping off-rhythm and added to the mix [B] , it was like the discovery of Uranium’s critical mass as dancefloors were devastated.

Never had club music been reduced to so little - entire DJ sets could be composed of cut-up Amen breaks, bass drops and the occasional vocal sample it seemed; but that hissing, ricocheting, stuttering Amen beat seemed to sound and feel best ON ITS OWN, over and over and over - bring the beat back, indeed, to infinity, always changing, always the same.

This is a essay by Alan Murphy. I think you might find it a bit interresting

well… if only I would have had a little more time (posted that on 8:38AM :wacko: :)) I would have explained something more.

that OGG is a test pattern I’ve made to study Kontakt features a little, yesterday night.

by the way, it is not a drumloop, rather it is a (still sucky :)) drum sequence.

yes looza, it sounds messy of course.
actually it’s not because of the reverb itself: it is the flanger which makes it suck that much; I’m currently searching for the best way to achieve a constant changing snare sound: this night I’ve tried with Kontakt flanger on snares, and as you have heard, the results were not so much encouraging :)
wednesday night I will try with a ReNoise controlled Kontakt resonant filter on snare samples.

ok so now I have to reply to the obvious question which raises:
“if you knew that it sucked, why in the world did you post it?” :rolleyes:
well… if you listen to it carefully, you will understand that the drumline is much more complex (still sucky, i repeat!! :D) and varying than how it may appear.
just wanted to show that in some minutes you can create a good drumline.

if you still think that it sucks… oh well… I could even delete all of these posts starting from my previous one and forget about it :P

Sewen, wow thought you wrote that off the top of your head before I reached the end!! :blink: :D

A couple of interesting points in there about the syncopation etc.

So I guess no one was able to redo the Amen break in Renoise? :o

I think this might help you out:

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?s…167080&cache=20

:)

…the amen break is a breakbeat sample, not a programmed break

Think everyone who has written in this thread understands this ;)

…but you don’t recreate it from first principles with different drum sounds

The point with the trying to get the amen break sound, is not just the drum sounds but the mastering aswell. If the same break was recorded with digital studio equipment now it would sound completely different. Even if you can`t get the same hits, mastering other hits in that style could be more useful than sampling the break.

and chopping up the amen break and then putting it back together would be completely pointless. :blink:

I agree but if you can understand how the sound is achieved you can not only recreate it but manipulate it in more ways than simply just sampling offers.

In any case if it is possible with a computer by physical modelling (or even in renoise) it doesn`t seem like an easy task. A shame as it is a classic sound but being this way probably helps it to remain so…

I think the answer might be quite simple: back in 70s they played drums instead of creating drum patterns using samplers

I agree that playing gives an unimitable feel to the thing !
There are actually some people out there trying to create new breeds of original drum loops and styles…

Check Eric Persing’s Liquid Groove, which a is for me an absolute reference.
You can also check the work of Gota Yashiki (producer/dummer)…

All of the above are a great mix of sampled live performances and programming…

Actually, it’s best to do both! That’s what dnb producers do…

Programmed breaks are often tighter and cut through the mix more than breakbeats, but breakbeats often roll better and are more musical than programmed breaks. So, you might make a programmed break out of some drum samples you like (maybe even sampled from a breakbeat), but have the amen high hats (or the hats of some other breakbeat) running in the background. Or use a little loop of breakbeat at the end of a programmed break phrase to provide contrast. Or loop a breakbeat and emphasise bits of it with a programmed break over the top. You get the idea…

play drums. record on shity tape with one mic.

or

track drums like a drummer and simulate tape and mic.

question of good tracking plus good software.

I think this is possible.

hmmm…scientific analysis.

typical computer musician (takes one to know one).

there’s a whole lot of variables at work in something like that break.

the room that the drums were played in (including anyone that might have been in the room, the couch next to the drum set etc.), the wood the drum shells are crafted from, the seasoning(wear and crust) on all the drum heads, the seasoning on the rides, swing variant (drummers don’t need to use dx or 0dxx parameters to decide how much to offset their next hit and if they did they’d have decimal places that go off into infinity), sticks, point of contact on the drum head/ride (a variable alot of pro drummers really like to get to know and play with =] ), microphones used, preamps, recording medum, EQ’s, FX compression, weather conditions acting on the drums, air pressure, gravity, cosmic alignment…

this ties into analog vs. digital for me.

digital will always have crystal precision, but analog has an infinite resolution. thinking that you can recreate something real with a computer is naive…

Yep a pure + perfect recreation is impossible, taking this arguement to extremes in some of the factors you are talking about then no two events are ever the same, every time the drummer plays the same loop it will be slightly different.

There is however a limit to which the human senses and brain can percieve so when resolution becomes high enough we can not tell the difference between high digital resolution and infinite analog! The skill of recreating something musical so it is not percievably different is more the point here.

Yup…and I’ve read that there’s one very good reason that breakbeats can’t really be emulated on a computer by conventional methods, and that’s that drum kits self-resonate. Has anyone made a plugin which simulates that…?

it seems to be a common approach these days to reconcile the inaccuracy of digital media and technologies by claiming that humans are so inaccurate that it doesn’t make a difference.

I may not be able to hear the difference but i can FEEL it.
humanity is more the point there.

Not a case from the point I was making. Never claimed that humans are so inaccurate atall just that there is a limit to our senses, you cant for example see atoms even though you know they are there, it would therefore make it a pointless (even tho also impossible) to paint a painting correct to the closest atom. Doesnt mean just because you are painting at a lower resolution that an artistic point can not be made and felt by the people who view it.

The point for me is to recreate a feeling of analogue / whatever the factors which create the feeling you are talking about. The thing that is great about digital is the way that it can emulate other things to the point we can not tell the difference and altho not perfect now will get better.