Automation

Hi,

I really wonder if you could work on the automation functions. It is something I really need in my music composition, I automate anything possible, but there is a little problem:
When I create automations, using automation device, I usually start from a pattern to end into a different pattern, this way I have to split the automation line into 4-8 or 16 parts at least. This process takes time, but also the need to calculate all the crossing point’s values of every pattern.

So here is my proposal: Can you creat a new window dedicated exclusively to the automations? I wish I could have a window that pop up where I can create only automations, but the nice thing is that the automations will start from any pattern and end to any pattern without the need to split them.
It could be also confortable to use in a second monitor, for the composers who use 2 video monitors, and also very professional.

When I make “debates” with people using other sequencers I really can beat them by saying that we have VST on the tracker, we have audio quality, but I really can’t hide the fact that it’s not easy to work with the automations.

Thanks for reading :)

It is not easy to use automations across the whole song, that does not mean it is not easy to work with automation.
One of the problems with automations that has to cross multiple pattern sequencer positions is: that only works if your pattern sequence is unique.
This goes wrong when your pattern sequence is:
1
1
2
2
3
3

So for this to work, there must be inserted a trigger that has to make the pattern sequence unique before it applies the automation.
But on the other hand, you not might want to copy repeated patterns into a unique sequence yet if you are still doing some quick and dirty work for testing purposes.
To do seamless automation connection, you can copy the last automation point in the current pattern automation window -> click on the ruler bar at the last position, then copy (if you middle click to focus the frame you can still copy by using ctrl+c) then go to the next pattern sequence, click the first position on the upper ruler bar and paste.

I know my english is not excellent, I come from Italy, so maybe I could not express myself.

_ I was talking about creating an INDIPENDENT automation window, which works in terms of TIMELINE and not the standar automation grafic anymore.

This way either you use unique patterns or not the automation window will be indipendet from the patterns but synchronized in terms of TIME with the whole song.

Let me give you an example: if you want to start filtering a melody line from pattern 1 to pattern 16, and at the same time I want to automate the volume of the bass drum, and maybe automate another filter for the vocal part, and effects and so son…(just to keep being simple) it would be irritating to split the grafic automations in “parts” for each fx and for each pattern every time, for every song!

_ When compose music you usually clear and rebuild suff, so what happens if I have to rewrite 32 patterns which I don’t like? Wouldn’t be easy to have indipendent automation lines that could be also saved as files?

_ One more thing: in order to keep mixing a song the volume level of each track need to be changed, then automated from the first until the last pattern of any song. This happens also for the balance (left & right) so
Do you think it’s easy to use 100 automation parts for every track?
For orchestral composers it would be hell only to automate the volumes for 32 channels and maybe for songs that last 12 minutes!!!

_ What is for creating exponential or algoritmic lines lasting 8-16 patterns? I think it would be easy to load default grafic lines and adapt them to ANY LENGHT of a song, just by giving a starting point and ending one, simply with 4 clicks and 2 seconds of time.

These are technical needs, and any aritst I know using logic or cubase would never waist some time to create automations point by point. I am talking because of my experience and what I have used to learn and see in the studios, and when you have an idea in mind and you want to put it quiclky into Renoise you can not waist hours just to creat “lines” for the automations.
I know it’s not impossible, I used to do it for years, but the time factor is really important in creativity so I am sorry to be that direct and tell you the facts how they are: creating automations in Renoise is a weak point, especially nowadays that electronic music needs more attention and TIME dedicated to other things in composition, believe me.

I attach an image as example, but keep in mind that one would need at least 2-3 lines like this to be automated for each track.

I hope you understand.

Welcome to another italian renoise user

Ciao da TN

:yeah:

That sounds like a good idea yes.
What should we use the automation frame space for when that part comes free?

Good question:

There will be no space used from the tracker, but it could be a “POP UP” window, and the composer can open it by a menu comand.
By clicking on that comand an exclusive window will pop up and one can drag and drop it anywhere. It can by minimized or maximized, like any windows window.

The automation window could be something like this:

This way a composer can creat the automation line with a few clicks, but until now 21 automation lines are necessary to creat a simple line like this one…to not mention the calculations!

Now you could ask me: why choosing a pop up window and not adopt the ordinary automation space available in Renoise?

Because

  1. When you have something like 12-30 automation lines going together you need to visualize them all together, or at least part of them.
  2. It will be useful in order to load automation lines as files, exchange them from track to track or save them (Mad Tracker has this function since 2002)
  3. A big view of the song, in terms of automations, improves creativity.

Take a look at this:

This is a simple example, it show 21 patters of a song (1 minute more or less).
This way you can creat these automations with a few clicks, but until now one must create 168 lines in order to have this result!!! (21 patterns x 8 tracks) and the hardest part is calculating point by poin in percentage (5%, 12%, 17% …and so on) it’s not easy at all, it’s something crazy, and you can’t immagine how many musicians and dj’s critisize this problem, and honestly they are right.

Now the last question: what to do with the automation space in Renoise?
Simply keep it for the standard functions, and make it visualize each parte of the BIG AUTOMATION LINE.

This is something that will be bring the tracker ahead, and certanly it is not a disadvantage.

Any horizontal software has automations like I described, so why not Renoise too, before another tracker do it?

I see this and raise by “when multiple patterns are selected in the sequence editor, display all of them in the automation window”.

(It would require renoise to view them as continous, so you can have for example cubic interplation from value A to B over a bunch of patterns.)

I’m just hoping that when the arranger comes it takes into account automation over multiple patterns as this discussion comes up time and time again.

That means that automation has to be tied to sequencer positions rather than patterns itself.
What can make it confusing is that two the same patterns can have different automation curves what is what one in facts want, but requires accustomization.
When selecting multiple positions in the sequencer there currently is no visual solution to show the whole automation in the same view because the relative points and values no longer relate to pattern lines.