Beatsync...

Just wanted to say how excellent the beatsync feature is!

It’s soooo fast to get loops in time!

:)

Beatsync is nice but I want to have an option that the sample is not pitched up or down :)

Yeah that would be good. Obviously you can slice it up in 09xx but to maintain the groove is impossible like this. The only way is to use recycle and export as a single .wav as far as I am aware. Please correct me if Iam wrong.

A recycle style slicer in the sample editor would be AMAZING.

I would say that any wave editor with “timestretching” does the job, not just Recycle. It’s just a matter of finding the “change pitch & speed” feature and manipulate your beat. On the mac side I’ve used Garageband and Amadeus II, on Win32 I’ve used Cool Edit. All of them are a pain in the ass to use in the Renoise workflow though.

beatsynced samples are immune to alternating note values and the pitch can therefore only be changed by sliding up/down.
so… for keeping things flexible, sample offsets are way better and fun.

I have asked this before a long time ago, so apologies…

I need some one to tell me how to do something…

Right, in CubaseSX3, it is very easy to work with breaks. For example, you take a 1 bar break and load it onto the arrange page as audio. You can then add extra audio tracks and layer single hits to the break EXACTLY on the hits of the break by zooming in.

I know we can use the 09xx but how can I layer hits onto a break EXACTLY like in Cubase. Obviously I cant see the wave form on the pattern editor. A drummed break doesnt have a kick drum and a snare in the same positions as the steps on the pattern editor obviously.

I could change the groove of the break by forcing the kick and snare to sit exactly on the steps of the pattern editor, but I dont want to change the groove.

This is so simple in Cubase…

Anyone have the answer?

Have you tried fumbling with the groove settings in the “Song Settings” on bottom frame of Renoise?
Another solution is to use a note-delay in the delay column to synchronise other samples to other (ticks -> http://tutorials.renoise.com/?n=Renoise.RenoiseTicks ) positions than exact row positions.
The delay command (dx) in the panning / volume column is to give you this higher time resolution and there will always be a matching point if the loop’s groove is structured and timed to the set bpm.

You can also use double speed for more resolution. In combination with tick-delay, you can come really close to that EXACT position.
…But it will screw up the alignment of your notes. Just a brainwave: Perhaps it is nice to have some kind of possibility (new feature) to set the play position of a sample. If the play-position-bar is shifted to the right, the sample is shifted in time. When the pattern is played, the general play-cursor hits the play-position-bar of the sample on time, but the sample is already started to play some time (ticks?) earlier. What about this?

So basically there is no way to do this as accurately as in cubasesx3 right?

I understand about tick delay Dx etc but this is all just a work around isnt it?

I am trying to think of a way that this problem can be properly sorted in a tracker, but I cant really think of a way…

I think it would be good to have the positions of each pattern line visible in the sample editor, so we can see how the 09xx relates to the lines of the pattern.

How accurately do you want it? if you work with large samples and use the sample-offset to play samples from within a certain spot in a loop, the offset figure is actually the real pain here because the offset values are based upon block devisions of the sample it’s size.
For any more precise sample triggering if the offset command doesn’t help you (09xx) is currently slicing up the sample to the moment and recreate an RNI with a drumkit map.
The 9xx effect command works fine for small samples.
Different plans have been suggested to change this calculation to a user definable offset table per sample (which e.g. would allow you to store a specific precise selection to a table that can be called by the 9xx command)

Not really this is one of the default ways to handle more precise resolution aspects of recording.
Renoise is in this aspect a tool for precise timing.
But for as far as my experience it allows you to apply groove variation and also add a humanized element in timing (simulating hand-job mistakes).

It may seem a lot of work entering those values, but this is where the advanced edit and copy/paste options come in action ones you have set up a groove-frame for the rest of your song, you are ofcourse not expected to re-enter those values over and over.

Yeah thats all good, but in cubase you can just drag a break onto the arrange screen, zoom in, and line up the extra hits with the break. It doesnt involve guessing where stuff goes like in renoise, as you can see it in front of you in wave form.

To be honest, I dont use a lot of breaks in my stuff, but I often get hold of a rhythmical loop from whereever that would be ace to sync the beats too, and I cant really do it because its basically not possible in renoise.

This is my only real gripe with renoise, so sorry for the negativity, but to be honest it is a bit of a ball ache.

Thanks for the reply, but that is not what I was asking. Obviously I know how to layer hits and I know how to chop breaks… :)

My question is… How do you accurately layer hits to an UNQUANTIZED break so that they sit EXACTLY on the hits of the break? You cant see the break on the pattern screen so this is impossible.

My second question… How do you slice a break in Renoise and change the speed with out quantization? In Cubase you do this by slicing up the break in recycle, export the .wav and the midi pattern. Then you load into any sampler and use the midi to play the slices. When you change the bpm in cubase the midi shifts accordingly… this leads to a faster breaks with the same groove.

Soooo… how do you do this in Renoise? I think basically that you cant…

Timestreching would be a cool option but
I tried this sync function finally and have to say it works great.
it’s also very cool that the sample pitch is adapted in real time when you change the tempo.
this makes me think of great new effects I could use in my tunes!

Really great tressure!

What?! Not in Renoise, right?

it’s all to do with how you chop things up…

it’s one benefit from working with h/w samplers for so long - it doesn’t seem like a chore…

think about what Paradox does with Octamed and an Akai - he’s cutting up breaks into 500 pieces, layering as many as 9 together (on his earlier stuff), and always keeping the natural groove…

it’s all to do with where you cut each hit… normally you’ll have the bass drums pretty tight, with snares, slightly undercutting or overcutting gives you either a laid back or a rushed feel to the break - hihats and shakers take a bit of trimming and a lot of intuition - when you see the original break you get an idea of the groove - but there’s no reason to copy it exactly… i normally have hats on the up beat perfectly tight, and then maybe a bit of loose timing on either side… it’s almost always a matter of how late the notes trigger - triggering early with a sped up break usually sounds messy (imo).

in fact, people who try to do what Paradox and the drum funk guys do with recycle, never sound at all convincing… recycle’s just not clever enough and it makes you lazy…

with layering single hits you can always leave a bit of silence on the sample then use 900 offset to fine tune exactly where it starts…

what i do these days is quantize every break i use - either in cubase/recycle - or often in renoise chopping by hand - so i’ve got perfectly tight tighten ups, hot pants, etc. in a sample folder - then i can safely 900 offset everything and adjust tuning and groove manually

also means you can rearrange 1 break, mess with the timing, tuning, levels, etc. then audition a different break in its place and have it following all the same programming… now that’s a serious time saver

Yes, In renoise.
make a loop, place it into a track, select the sync option with the desired loop lenght.
now while you play your song change the tempo and see how the pitch of the sample gets higher when speeding up the song and lower when you lower the speed.
The loop stays perfectly in sync.

Geniusses those devs!

Oh, I already knew this, old news.

Although I appreciate the feature (default behaviour?) I was hoping you were talking about how the pitch didn’t change when the tempo did.

Kind of how Traktor DJ does it.

nope, no timestreching.

wormjar,

every single sample loaded into renoise is cut up 256 times into 256 pieces already,
for you. :D

-to access this wonder you must use the 09XX Command.

-to find out more go here.
http://wiki.renoise.com/wiki/?n=Renoise.EffectCommands

-hexadecimal is solely used in the effects column

-keep your samples small,you get better precision.

Yes I tried this and have a problem
I made a perfect loop
but when you use to interpolate from 900 till 9FF there is a short silence on the end of the loop 9FA cuts off the sample to early.

maybe a bug? does anyone experience the same?