The footswitch is normally used for start/stop and that’s why I thought the 2nd footswitch could be rec/edit for automation or note playing. Else, it could be an expression pedal for groove maybe? Nah…
Foot 1 = start/stop
Foot 2 = Rec/edit mode
What do you think?
So do the colours work? The jogwheel? If so, this X-touch is a must.
Start/Stop and Edit On/Off, that works for me. The expression pedal is probably better left as is. I’ll add that
And yes, the colors work (beware, the X-Touch only knows 7 colors and black, so we have to match the closest color), and yes, the jogwheel moves the play/edit pos through the entire song (I put a little bit of an acceleration curve so we can both scroll one single line when rotating slowly and quickly through the song when rotating faster).
I’m ready to order the X-touch and a second footswitch ( Lead Foot LFD-10) Already own one of these and it’s spot on. I’m going to beta test this tool/driver adn get back to you with suggestions most definetely. How is not everyone on this boat? I mean, this is pretty evolutionary here!
For now, I am experimenting with 3 monitor screens, of which the middle one is sitting vertically (25"). I have the pattern editor and sequencer there. The mixer screen is on my left and the x-touch will sit underneath. On the other hand on the right screen I have the renoise instrument and the midi keys under it. Will post a picture when the X-touch arrives.
I am saying this because I encounter a small problem with this setup. Everything is absolutely fine working with three monitors and it is not as tiring as I imagined. I have tuned the mouse pointer’s acceleration and precision to fit the workspace and it is just fine.
The problem is that I used to move around in Renoise’s windows using the computer keyboard only, whereas now, having detached both the mixer and instrument editors, the window switching shortcuts don’t work as they did. Say, I want to switch focus from the pattern editor to the dsp devices(which now sit below the mixer, only) on the other screen, it will not work. I will have to explicitly use the mouse to set the focus. Or, even then, I found that you can’t switch to the adjacent dsp device using the arrow keys if the mixer window is detached! This is something that the X-touch must take care of. This means, that pressing the INST button on the X-touch must bring focus to the renoise instrument.
OK - after going back to look at the front panel of the x-touch, here’s what I propose.
The xrni instrument can be a Plug-in (button PLUG-IN) / a sample based instrument (INST button) or MIDI (MIDI TRACKS button on the X-touch). That’s all I have thought of for this post of mine today.
The X-Touch has just arrived. I am still trying to figure out what the Xctl is. The download files from Behringer are pure rubbish “Mac apps”. I downloaded them files to find there is no editor or drivers whatsoever. So, I have installed the Tool, which by the way does not come out in Searches…, (I searched for X-Touch in Tools and nothing comes back - tried Google then and I found it). Now, to the point, I have also enabled ToolDelveloper mode just so I can reload tools when they crash. Also, copied the github extracted zip into the Scripts folder. What else am I supposed to do to get it working?
To configure the X-Touch, keep pressed the leftmost
SELECT and turn it on. XCtl is the “native” mode to communicate with the mix-air or whatever it is called. So, choose XCtl instead of MC or HUI or hybrid. Mode is on the first screen/encoder, Interface (Ifc) to choose between MIDI and ethernet on the second.
On the tool side, select the proper MIDI devices and press the Reset button. You should be set! (If something goes wrong, try reloading the tool after you have set up the MIDI devices.)
I’ve been a bit busy elsewhere but I’ll go back to developing the tool very soon
Yeah, I actually have no idea how to add the tool or request it added… It’s not an official tool yet /o\
wow that was super quick! I have updated the firmware using the C6 from Elektron instead of SysexLibrarian. Otherwise there is only the opltion for HUI and MC.
Now, I will do the next bit.
So I set up the MIDI in as X-TOUCH (int), also tried (ext) but nothing happens. It only says MIDI: No link. I am connected thru USB only. Shall I connect the ethernet cable?
You need MIDI cables, sorry. I’ll add the ethernet support in a later version. The X-Touch is mute over USB in X-Ctl mode, but MC mode goes through.
If the X-Touch is in MC mode, most things might work, but not the screens.
When the X-Touch doesn’t receive a ping sysex in like 6 seconds, it will reset and display MIDI: No link. So this means that the tool is not sending the ping to the correct interface (or not at all). You can look at the scripting terminal for error messages.
I’m not sure it expects the same ping in MC and XCtl modes, so it’s also possible that it just doesn’t react to my pings in MC or HUI modes… I haven’t tested that (the tool requires XCtl for color screen support, so it didn’t really come up before).
With the firmware 1.15 you should see XCtl in the list of modes (release notes below)
The installed firmware version is displayed on the left of the LCD when you turn it on.
Ok after eating my peanut butter and having connected my last 2 MIDI cables in the house, it came to life for the first time using your script! Nice! Now I’m getting to work. The colours are fantastic! Can’t keep on writing atm, I am going to load the last track I’m working on and work with it for a while. Then get back to you here! Thanks so much for the help! I’m glad you happened to be active right now…
Alrighty…I see. We have quite a few things to implement… You said you have been busy elsewhere so I don’t know whether I should start pointing out ideas, but for starters the arrow keys must at least move the cursor around. But I can see their usage in conjuction with the Pattern Matrix, moving around and copying pasting blocks. Selecting area by pressing the Shift button in the Modify area on the Xtouch. The Option button can be used as Cut, Control for Copy and Alt for Paste. These are the four buttons in the Modify area.
Back to the Matrix, we can see what is available in the Transport area on the X-Touch. The first button ‘Marker’ can be used to enter Section in the Pattern Sequencer. Second button, Nudge, could be a toggle switch on/off, and when enabled the REW/FF buttons just below will move the song between Sections. ‘Cycle’ will loop the Section. ‘Drop’ will Play from the current position in the sequencer (play directly at the block selected or, it could Schedule it to play next). Replace could be used as Rename or Clone Section as in Re-place. Another that came to mind for Replace, is Join selected patterns Click must do the obvious, turn on/off the metronome. Solo could be used as a Mono Check (there are two tools that I know of that do this, but one should have installed it first?
Also, Scrub doesn’t work the way it was intended to unfortunately the cursor will not wrap around the pattern. Scrub could instead be used as Shift for one hand selection together with the Jog wheel.
The buttons in the Automation area on the X-Touch can be used for switching focus to different windows inside Renoise and then, one can move between Renoise instruments, DSP devices, Samples in the Sampler instrument/ stuff in the Browser… using the arrow keys or even the jog wheel. These are all controllable using keyboard shortcuts - this is how I use Renoise - and I move around instruments, samples, patterns, editing waves, copying/pasting/ renaming all using the keyboard exclusively. So, it is important to be able to switch focus to the different windows and we could do this using the six buttons in the Automation area. So from left to right and top to bottom, the 6 buttons could set the focus to Pattern Editor/ Mixer/ Instruments, and then, Touch/Latch/Group set the focus to DSP device chain/ Automation/ Browser.
The Utility area could do what it says, Save (Sample instead of Song (or even instrument) / Undo/Cancel (redo)/ Enter (enter, do what Return does. Loading a song/instrument/ theme for example)
F1 to F8 should be mappable to user’s other Tools. Or else, just bring up the GlobalView Presets.
As for the Main row of buttons, the ones already mapped to swithching between the instrument’s properties, I believe that these need a look up too. Midi Tracks should take you to Midi instrument properties, whereas Global View would take you to the pattern Editor. Inputs button could bring up the Sample Recorder Dialog.
The rest are OK as they are. Of course there is more to it, but I don’t even know if you will even put the effort to even read all this! haha! I mean, this is a lot of work, I don’t expect you to do it! But I would pleasantly donate a small amount mate!
I like how the black colour kinda disables the screen if you want to ‘hide’ it.
I really like the X-Touch already. The feel of the faders, the actual curvature of the thing you push with your fingertip, helps to control the attack of the fader movements… I mean it is well thought of when choosing components. Takes a lot of space too. I’m going to check how it works with Reaper and Ableton now.
What do you think of all these changes I recommended? Are they too many to ask for?
I really like the way The Sends work. Also the plugin control is very good. I like both ways of working with the device parameters! Just wanted to mention this - very good work man! Really liking this ! thumbs up
Technically, no. 'Cause I have ambitions for this tool too. And you’re bringing ideas to areas where I was kind of dry or indecisive. I generally like your suggestions but there are some details to discuss, like the
UNDO function. Since the tool hacks the song in a couple ways, using the “bare” Renoise Undo will mess things up, and it’s tedious to set up my own undo chain on top of the Renoise one (the Lua API is missing some facilities there).
But it’s going to take me a lot of time to sift through your ginormous post
Would you actually mind creating issues on the github repo to keep the list tidy (and up-to-date as we go)?
Yeah love the feeling too. Only the jog wheel feels a bit cheap.
I have been testing the Behringer X-Touch Control Surface with Renoise, Reaper, Live 10 and Harrison Mixbus…
Best usage so far is with Mixbus. Both the X-touch and Mixbus made with mixing in mind. So, yes, they are a very good pair together. The colours don’t work though, but it looks more serious this way.
With Ableton 10, I have found that it works very differently than expected let’s say, but it was easy to understand, with no manual, and it gives a very handy workflow so to speak. It does actually help, and you could do quite a lot with it, but still I find that the mouse is faster. And if you choose not to use the mouse, you can, but you will still be looking at the monitor screen, to see where you’re at, in the song, either in arrangement view or in clips view. Nevermind though, because this is the Renoise forum.
I have personally purchased license for Renoise & Redux, Reaper and two subscriptions, one with Slate Digital and one with Kush Audio. Now, after purchasing the X-Touch, I must admit that I am disappointed by the support of Behringer. I knew that there must be something wrong if it’s a Behringer piece of gear. Well, the support sucks. No Editor, no Templates for DAWs…
I am not a program developer, but this purchase requires me to become one. I’m seriously thinking of sending it back to Thomann in exchange for a Moog minitaur. That will work!
Don’t get me wrong, I massively appreciate your efforts with this ‘driver’ for Renoise, but after seeing the choppy fader movement due to the MIDI connection, I was disappointed. The colours are wonderful though, I only seen them using Renoise.
I wish I had your programming knowledge so that I could really help, but I lack it. I have made MIDI surfaces work on my iPad for both Renoise and Reaper, (and that’s how I immediately know what could have been mapped to what) but they were simple MIDI CC commands. Not OSC as I should have done them. If someone showed me the environment(API, LUA etc…) and how to do these stuff, I could very well chime in and program shit loads, but I’m home alone in this regard.
All in all, what I wanted from this machine was to be able to ride the levels (and write automation). The DAWs that I tried, none of them allowed me to do it for more than one track at a time. I can’t stop thinking of sending it back unfortunately. I have to make the decision before it’s too late. Such a long post again… I’m sorry.
All the DAWs communicate with the X-Touch as if it was a generic MC controller, so the mapping is fixed (defined by the MC protocol), and does not include the scribble strips (that’s why I use the native XCtl mode instead). It kind of makes sense to me that it is not editable. The Compact has a mapping editor though.
I haven’t tried the X-Touch in Mixbus, but I’m not surprised that it would work well. I was quite disappointed in the Ableton implementation. That was a while ago, I don’t remember the specifics.
We can try and address that fader “choppiness”. There are extensive threads on gearslutz about interpolation. It’s possible that in Ethernet mode it will work more smoothly too The MIDI protocol has a terrible bandwidth. Just sending timecode at short intervals is already enough to mess up the stream timings. I’m going to try and make ethernet work this week-end, and we’ll see if that addresses the choppiness.
Don’t worry about learning to code, that’s my job
But if you want to look under the hood, check the Programs/ directory and any *_page.lua file in mixer_lib/ to see how the mappings are defined. It’s undocumented but should not be too cryptic.
I think it’s worth more than just sending it back
My goal is actually to turn it into an interface for a live act of sorts, beyond “just” mixing. That’s the reason behind allowing multiple “programs” (mappings with behaviours) in the tool.
Yes man, I have been working with it since it arrived. I decided I am keeping it for several reasons, mainly for mixing obviously. I do use it with Ableton for now, it works fine, no complain really.
The fader choppiness was my main problem and how it affects the parameter automation in Renoise. I tried to automate a parameter using the right click of the mouse, but because of the connection to the X-touch, the parameter would skip and would end up fucked. I’m totally in for using an ethernet connection if possible!
I did check under the hood, and also tried to contribute in Github, but it’s all alien to me. No matter if I try, I lack the know-how.
I’m not sending it back, although Thomann sent me instructions how to return it and all (niceone by them). I am keeping it for gain staging and riding levels automation. A thing that it gives me, is to be able to control my Virus Ti parameters using the faders.
Could you please add the 2 footswitches for play and rec? It should be just a matter of time for you.
I thought about it and at the end of the day this machine is a Mixing tool first and foremost, so well done implementing the basics of mixing in Renoise. Switching from PRE to POST levels is handy.
Can we write automation though? That is one thing. important. One more question. Is there a way that when you click on a DSP device, the X-touch would automatically bring up it’s parameters? Then, hit Global View and get back to the Mixer? I just thought about this? I saw you were active on Github , you uploaded a file some 24 hours ago. Are you working on this again?
I’m still working on it, just need to organize my time a bit to keep it flowing. I’ve implemented the pedals support in the driver (both foot switches and the expression pedal), and the mappings are coming soon
Regarding automation, I found this (spoiler alert: it’s about Logic Pro X) https://support.apple.com/kb/PH13172?locale=en_US which gives a purpose to 5 of the 6 buttons in the section (except
GROUP). I’m going to try to follow that. If I manage to make proper bindings to the edit cursor, it should cover both live and step recording.
Don’t worry too much about github. It would be useful though if you can just create an account so we can have specific threads for individual suggestions and issues in the Issues section (it’s going to quickly become hard to keep track of stuff here), and you can add feature requests at will.
I’m pretty confident that we can fix the fader issues. In particular there’s one thing I overlooked: the faders shouldn’t be fully bidirectional (as in, any time a value changes on one end, the other end is updated, but then special care has to be taken to not update the initial end again and cycle indefinitely), but instead, when the user touches the fader, it should only send towards renoise, and when the fader is not touched, it should send only towards the X-Touch. This should make taking over automation more transparent.
I’m afraid I haven’t completely understood the parameter fuck-up you describe. Can you describe the situation and sequence of events in more detail? So I can do the exact same thing too
Oh, and, yes, I’ll add the mapping when you change the selected_device. I like the idea. The more events like that we bind to, the better.
I just updated the repo on Github with foot switch support (both) and a few improvements, especially the fader handling. There should be no more parameter fuck-up. You can download the repo again and overwrite the tool.
I’m going to add a bit of automation management (probably a bit like the Sends page), “fix” the cursor bindings, and I think that will justify a 0.2 release.
In a more futile register, I’m thinking of mapping the expression pedal to the keyboard velocity. What do you think?
You have made my day! Great news!
I will keep track and contribute with feature requests - with pleasure.
Footswitches will find usage! Nice!
Automation, live and step recording… Sounds wonderful to say the least. Does that mean, that we will be using the arrow keys to move steps, and the faders/knobs to enter parameter changes? Will both the jog wheel and the arrow keys move the cursor? I’m saying this because when we are in the automation lane, the sequencer line (where you are in the sequence) moves horizontaly instead of vertically in the pattern Editor. It should not affect anything, I just foresee some kind adjustments here to be done in the future.
Understood the issue with the fader movement. Since, we have touch events though, you should defo try implementing your idea. It sounds legit and should work right off.
The “parameter fuck-up” thing refers to the skewed automation data (the curve written is not smooth due to the above issue. It will be addressed once smooth handling is achieved.
As for mapping the expression pedal to the keyboard velocity; I can imagine placing snares and then, yes, using the expression pedal for ghost notes…not only that of course…Sounds useful as an alternative to typing the velocity value. Legit! Go on master! I’m with you!