Boss DR 660 vs Renoise

Two tape speeds offer HIGH for greater fidelity…http://homerecording.com/tas424specs.html

Great video, I love stuff like that, and I just noticed that Tascam has a speed switch, must be very nice to have that. I don’t have that on the Yamaha, I have a pitch knob for speed, but the switch is a speed-lock on mine. I’ll have to have a word with MT8X and ask her why she allowed a much cheaper Tascam to out-smart her in that repsect <_<

Love the idea of the chordal drones, never thought of that, and at least I’m ok in that respect cause I’d be able to use six chords, and still have two left over to record them to, in stereo :smiley:

I know what it’s for, the Yamaha is set on high all the time though (other than using the pitch knob), that’s why I want to adjust the speed-pot inside so that I can get lower fidelity and better warmth by slowing it down a bit. If I recall, the MT8X runs through a tape twice as fast as standard speed, which is nice if you want the fidelity, but I’d rather trade some fidelity for extra warmth. I’ve been toying with the idea of adjusting the speed-pot for years, just haven’t got around to doing it. Seeing that video just gave me an idea though. Rather than adjust the pot, I could attach a resistor attached to a switch, and feed the wire though the vent on the back.

That way I could have a switch without having to drill holes in it (which I would never do anyway).

Man, I was thinking for a sec. u named ur Girlfriend ‘MT8X’ for whatever reasons…now it All makes much more sense. lol! #noice :yeah:

tru & 8 tracks even more lofidelity, as much narrower in space.

I’ve also heard about this chordal drone technique. It’s quite interesting, but everyone seems to be doing it now and almost every 4-track video is about that technique, so I’ve actually gotten tired of it without ever even trying it. :badteeth:

In terms of cheating when it comes to guitar parts using sampling et.c: I did that right after I got my guitar and made loads of tracks using that, but now I’m really yearning for some more fluency which the linearity of these 4-track recorders offer. No copy/paste or loop-bullsh**. You gotta learn how to play your instrument all the way through (and due to this, you’ll get better on it)…

That’s where the tricky part comes in though. You have to plan things out + PRACTICE your parts over and over before you record. That’s the weird part. Having to practice your own songs? Damn right.

I came up with a song today and spent like 3-4 hours planning everything out. Then I tried to record it, but looking back at it it sounds terrible. Why? Cause I can’t play all the parts yet, lol. Gotta re-record the entire thing tomorrow. No big deal though, it’s much more rewarding in the end as soon as you get it right.

@Renoised: I’ll take that to heart, but for now I’ve got to focus on other things first before I delve into that territory…I also think it can be a bit dangerous. Nowadays, especially in electronic music, people get so obsessive about mastering, eqing, compression etc…and they do so for the wrong reasons, imo. It’s a “shine the turd!”-kinda thing most of the time, you know what I mean? You listen to their music, yeah, it’s crafted well and “technically” well done, but it’s got no soul. It’s just mindless crap. Lots of music out there is like that now.

I also don’t like the sound quality, really. Maybe it’s those Native Instruments plugins or whatever (not shi**ing on them, Reaktor etc. is the bomb), but it sounds really plastic to me. And not even in a good, Squarepusher kind of way, because his stuff from back then was digital, too…But something “bad” (to my ears at least) is happening there.

For now, what I’m mostly concentrating on is planning out song structures in my head and writing them down, playing reverse soloes over some of my riffs, trying to find some of my own licks in there etc etc…Really getting away a little from the way my brain works when I’m programming. So I’m not that concentrated on production techniques right now, I just really gotta get my guitar playing in order first. The simplicity of the 4-track lets me do that and I don’t get drowned in unnecessary details having to do with its architecture.

Isn’t cassette coming back, though? I’ve heard something like that, I think my mother told me something about that (and if she hears about stuff like that, then it must have been emerging on the surface already)

@Renoised: Isn’t that what mastering engineers are for? Just kidding. :clownstep:

Yeah, I also didn’t get that part. I don’t look at gear like that anyways, that it’s just good for genre X. I don’t think in genres.

I actually don’t use dbx. I’m really going for the Frusciante tone here and he didn’t use it as well, I kinda like the grittiness of it.

I’ll consider them for sure at some point. I still see myself in a developmental period (I guess I’ll never feel like I’m out of it) as I’m completely focussed on my ideas and realizing them as best as possible. Still far from it, imo, but I’m getting there. That’s where my focus lies. And that’s why I’m not so concerned about these things RIGHT NOW. Just lack of patience, I guess.

Yeah, I’d love for these things to come back. In many cases when it comes to analogue, the prices just make it Not worth it. And I hope that with it resurfacing, that this problem will be solved. It’s already happening when it comes to analog synths luckily, but still many old ones are overly expensive (in a ridiculous, criminal way). I hate that world.

I meant to ask the other day, have you got a website or YouTube channel for your stuff?
Just curious to hear what you’re up to with your gritty ol’ multi-track :badteethslayer:

Nah, not really. I mostly make it for myself as some sort of diary, I guess. Never seriously considered releasing anything.

I know what you mean, I’ve not done anything either, well not yet anyway, but I’ve had ideas for albums lined-up for a long time so hopefully I’ll get something done in the not too distant future.

It’s not that I haven’t done anything yet, because I have hundreds of finished tracks on my laptop and some stuff on cassette. None of it was made with me wanting to get it out there and none of it is worth releasing, in my opinion. There’s so much music out there that I want to be picky when it comes to contributing something and not just increase the level of noise, if that makes sense. I still believe in the old format of albums, so at some point I might compile something that has some continuity to it. :>

“I wish I knew the proper terms for guitar stuff, cause I’d love to know if there’s a term for how hard the strings are to press. I noticed some years back when trying-out some electric guitars, that some were really hard to play, but others were pleasantly easy. If there’s a term to describe a guitar with easy strings that aren’t a mile-off the fret-board, I’d really love to know what it is.”

@Renoised: It’s called guitar fretboard ‘action’. High action is greater height of the strings from the fretboard and low action is the opposite. It’s a general determiner of playing comfort for certain styles and also for choosing a particular guitar make or build. Flamenco and classical in general have higher actions( classical guitars use nylon strings). Steel wound string guitars which are the more common types seen everywhere have mod to low action. For a really low electric guitar style action for maximum speed and comfort I would recommend Tagima Dallas T/Vegas/Kansas which are made in Brazil. I also use Hertz and Ibanez but the Tagima guitar is really sexy and it’s got built in EQ and a battery compartment with a semi acoustic pickup, which is great for tone sculpting and for use via electric guitar pedals. The only other thing you need is a portable tuner(super important). A novice mistake is to start a practice and recording session without first ensuring that all strings are tuned to perfection, otherwise it’s like playing a keyboard with detuned keys, never sounds good at all. Second thing is playing posture which should enable the fretboard to be as static as possible and not use your playing left hand to support the fretboard. Rather your fingers can be taken off at any time and fretboard should be still or steady like a rock. Third, don’t press too hard with your hands, the strength will come with time and dedicated practice. Fourth, ensure that the chords you play sound well and clear in every string and that muted work as they should.

http://www.tagima.com.br/en/acusticos.php

Guitar glossary online for new owners.

https://www.guitarforbeginners.com/glossary.html

Excerpt:

Glossary of terms
Accented note A note played with more emphasis than others.

Action A word used to describe the distance of the strings off the fretboard, as in “high” or “low” action.

Archtop A type of acoustic or semi-acoustic guitar, with an arched soundboard, often played by jazz guitarists.

Arpeggio The playing of the tones of a chord separately, rather than simultaneously.

Augmented The quality of a chord having its intervals as the 1st, 3rd and sharp 5th notes of the major scale. See this page.

Barre chord A chord which uses the index finger to bar across several strings to act as the nut. Familiar shapes are fingered to the treble side of it. More here.

Bend A technique used to raise the pitch of a note by pushing the string sideways across the fretboard. See Bending.

Bridge The part of the guitar where the strings transmit their vibrations to the soundboard. Made of either wood or metal. See Anatomy.

Capo A device which clamps onto the fretboard acting as the nut. Allows unfriendly keys to be changed to friendly. More here.

Chord A group of scale notes which are played together, the simplest being the triad consisting of the 1st, 3rd and 5th of the scale. Read all about chords starting here.

Dead note A muted note played with no discernible pitch.

Diminished The quality of a chord having its intervals as the 1st, flat 3rd and flat 5th of the major scale.

Double stop Two notes played simultaneously.

Fingerpicking A pattern-based way of playing through chord progressions using the fingers.

Finger Style The art of playing guitar with the fingers rather than a flatpick. The thumb and up to three fingers are used.

Flatwound strings Steel strings which use flat ribbon winding rather than round wire for the thicker strings.
Preferred by jazz guitarists.

Fretboard The fretted surface of the neck where you do the playing, sometimes known as the fingerboard.

Fret The wire inset on fret board; also describes the distance between notes on the fretboard.

F-Hole The F shaped opening in the sound board of some guitars, usually archtops or resonators.

Ghost note A note played very quietly; the opposite of an accented note.

Grace note An ornamental note usually played just before a main note.

Hammer-on The creation of a new and higher note by hammering down on an already ringing string on a new fret; opposite of a pull-off.

Harmonic A bell-like sound created by gently touching the string at certain points.

Headstock The “top” of the guitar, where the tuning pegs are.

Improvisation The art of inventing music on the fly. This is achieved by knowing the structure of music, hearing it and inventing according to the rules.

Interval The “distance” between any two notes, usually measured relative to the major scale.

Inversion The order in which the tones of a triad are stacked: Root position: 1-3-5; First inversion: 3-5-1; Second inversion: 5-1-3. See Slash chords.

Legato Italian for ‘tied together’. If you hammer-on or pull-off notes, you’re playing legato style. See Hammer 0n and Pull off.

Major The quality of a chord having its intervals as the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the major scale.

Minor The quality of a chord having its intervals as the 1st, flat 3rd and 5th of the major scale

Mode Another word for scale. The major scale yields 7 modes, one starting and ending on each note. More on modes here.

Muting A technique used to muffle the ringing of notes, usually done with the edge of the hand placed gently on the strings near the bridge.

Nut The small grooved piece of bone that the strings sit in between the fretboard and the headstock.

Palm mute A technique used to muffle the ringing of notes, done with the edge of the palm. See Muting.

Pickup The electronic device used to pick up the sound of electric guitar strings. There are many types and configurations.

Pitch pipe Old fashion device used for tuning guitars. Works by tuning to the notes created by blowing into its six tubes.

Plectrum Official word for guitar pick.

Power chord Not really a chord; a double stop consisting of a root and a fifth of the chord, omitting the third.

Pull-off The creation of a new note by pulling your finger off an already ringing note to a lower fretted or open note; opposite of a hammer-on.

Resonator The circular speaker-like device, usually chrome, that fits into the body of some guitars, used to increase volume.

Root Sometimes referred to as ‘root note’ – Another word for Tonic, or the first note of a scale.

Saddle The upright blade which sits in the bridge, often bone, where the strings sit. See Anatomy.

Scale A series of intervals, usually spanning an octave. Scales are more often viewed as a series of notes (generated by the intervals).

Slash chord A chord such as G/B, meaning a G chord with a B bass note. See Slash chords

Slide A tube which fits on the finger and is used to slide along the strings to alter the pitch of notes (see Slide or Bottleneck Guitar); also the technique of sliding notes or chord shapes up the fretboard (see Sliding).

Sound hole The round hole on the front of most acoustic guitars.

Sound board The front surface of acoustic guitars. This is where the sound from the strings is amplified via the bridge.

Sus4 A chord consisting of the 1st, 4th and 5th notes of the major scale. The (4) in effect replaces the (3). This chord demands resolution.

Tablature A pictorial system of notation for guitar music, showing six strings and fret positions.

Tail piece The metal device usually used on archtop guitars to anchor the strings beyond the bridge.

Tapping A hammer-on technique that is done with the right hand.

Thumb pick A plastic pick which fits around the thumb and projects a blade out to act as a pick.

Tonic The tonic; the first note of a scale; the main note of a chord, the note the chord is named after. Also known as the “root”.

Tremolo The very fast repetition of notes; or an electronic effect that varies the volume in a regular pulsating manner.

Triad The simplest, smallest chord there is, consisting of the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale.

Trill A rapid movement between two notes.

Triplet A group of three notes played where two would be played.

Truss rod A steel rod which fits inside the neck of some guitars. Its tension can be adjusted to straighten the neck.

Tuner An electronic device used to tune guitars.

Tuning pegs The geared devices on the headstock used to tighten or loosen the strings. also known as Machine Heads.

Vibrato The ‘wobbling’ of notes, done by physically moving the strings across the fretboard. See Vibrato.

Whammy bar A lever attached to the bridge of electric guitars that can be used to alter the pitch of notes.

@Renoised: The action can be adjusted on most guitars, so you don’t have to look for a specific one, really. Having said that, I think acoustic guitars in general have higher action and most people use thicker strings on them, so take that into account in case you’re interested in that. But I haven’t played one yet, so I might be talking out of my *** here.

You should also take string gauge into consideration which also has an impact on how easy or difficult it is to play your guitar. And then there’s the question of scale length (also in conjunction with your chosen string gauge)…It’s endless, so it’s helpful to learn how to set the guitar up yourself, because then you can really make it play like it suits you best (action, neck relief, intonation, pickup height etc.). Sounds a bit intimidating at first, but it’s not a big deal, really.

I’m a big fan of Squier guitars. They’re affordable and some of them are really high quality especially considering the price. If you’re interested in Strats, then you can also take a look at older, used Mexican models (I got one of these). They’re around the same price range as high end Squiers and are really good. Thomann also makes really affordable guitars, some of the semi-acoustic ones are exceptionally good for the price (Harley Benton). It’s important to remember though that new guitars of a lower price-range are often not set up very well. Buying them can sometimes be a hit-or-miss. But again, adjustments aren’t really that difficult to do.

It depends on what you wanna do with it, really. I’m mostly playing a Strat right now, because I’m currently into blues, funk and post-punk that references that kind of stuff (Talking Heads, Television etc.), but the first guitar I got was a Squier Jaguar, because of it’s vibrato bar which is fun for Shoegaze stuff and one can play Johnny Marr stuff on it and it sounds right. Another reason why I prefer the Strat right now is because of its feel. The body is great and it’s lighter and smaller than the Jaguar (though the Jaguar is easier to play due to its shorter scale length and the kind of strings I got on it), but in the end, they’re both amazing guitars. I may get myself a Telecaster at some point as well. :3 The twangy sound is absolutely hypnotizing.

So just figure out what you wanna do, references etc. and that should make the decision easier. It did so for me at least.

Edit: If you’re interested in a Jaguar or Jazzmaster, be aware of the crappy stock bridge. It’s a real pain, but there are some workarounds. I replaced it with the StayTrem bridge which costs around 80 bucks. But there are probably cheaper, DIY ways of getting around it.

And btw, I’ve been playing guitar since around September last year, so I’m certainly not an expert on this. Take what I say with a grain of salt. :>

@Renoised: I don’t really have a lot of experience with this, but I suspect it was simply picked up with a dynamic microphone, but I could be totally wrong on this. I don’t have the ears for that to really tell, because I haven’t used piezos or mics to pick up acoustic guitars. You may wanna look for an interview with this guy, perhaps he talks about his production techniques somewhere.

I had a little phase in which I was interested in using piezo pickups on my electric-guitar in order to make it sound more acoustic. That’s the only kind of application I did some research on. But in the end, I’d rather just record my electric guitar unplugged into a dynamic mic. Check this out:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xdg7y8oxf4

But yeah, perhaps someone else here knows the answer to that. x)

@Renoised: I like the tone of it, it’s kinda acoustic, but not really. It helps me to make some nods to certain elements of my favorite music etc. There are many reasons as to why i’ll use that at some point. (they’re also quieter than real acoustic guitars…which helps) And yeah, slight room acoustic is great. Makes it sound more human.

Much of Frusciantes 4-track stuff has a lot of background noise in it, him coughing (at some point the coughing wasn’t the healthy kind anymore), breathing, his fingers, him taking a huge hit out of a bong, him drinking a glass of water (let’s just hope it was water) and swallowing it before starting and some other elements that pickups can’t “pick up”. That stuff was like a middlefinger to the professionalism in the music business. “Look at me, I play my stuff through a “crappy” 4-track and I’ll have my girlfriend giggle over it (and talk backwards gibberish) while I’m playing guitar solos on heroin, but it’s still better than your garbage.” And it was. Well, I guess not many can pull that off, but he could. Still though, don’t take heroin, kids! :badteeth:

The Fishman stuff, yeah, that’s what I was considering buying for my hypothetical Telecaster. And I wouldn’t have thought that you could make an acoustic do metal, I guess you can do almost anything with it if you just put your mind to it… :clownstep:

You can be one of those people who look for something new as soon as the initial excitement wears off and things get a bit more difficult. It’s nice, because things are always exciting (and dramatic). Or you stick with it for the long-term, even if that means you have to master the plateau, but it’ll be more fulfilling in the long run (+ you’ll be better at it). I prefer the latter even if my instincts sometimes want me to indulge in the path of least resistance (the first choice). :clownstep:

Resonates with me. I kept buying hardware during the last 2 years and am really struggling to fit it all into one workflow, keep replugging the audio a lot etc.

I hope I’ll settle soon. I do have a Yamaha AR1600 multi-track recorder so for today the plan is to make it the midi clock master, connect something midi and record. Delete the bad parts. Rinse and repeat. Appreciate randomness.

Resonates with me. I kept buying hardware during the last 2 years and am really struggling to fit it all into one workflow, keep replugging the audio a lot etc.

I hope I’ll settle soon. I do have a Yamaha AR1600 multi-track recorder so for today the plan is to make it the midi clock master, connect something midi and record. Delete the bad parts. Rinse and repeat. Appreciate randomness.

A good analog setup should be well thought thru all the way to the end. The prob is mostly you will need to try it out first, before you find out what werx & what doesnt. Its also part of the process I guess…in the end; having something that werx juz fine for you, might then be the exact #workflow you have been looking for.