That could work too. Doesn’t look too complicated. Only problem i see is how you would actually fit several pianorolls vertically, even for people with low resolution screens But that’s not up to me to solve. But this could work as well.
On the other hand there’s still some major problems with editing notes in pettern view. (for people who refuse to adopt and use a pianoroll) so I made a quck scetch a while back. This old thread might shed some light to the issue.
Or why not have both? Ctrl+Shift+P Could opnen a vertical pianoroll editor in pattern view. Don’t know why but vertical just makes more sense. since that’s how you see a pianoroll anyways.
Bantai’s scetch is not bad, I would just like to see it tilted 90 degrees clockwize and have it as ONLY a piano roll so the editor buttons on the button would be.
Absolutely.
I do not need a piano roll and I also can not see a single benefit from it.
Not as analyzing tool and not as note-correction tool (detect wrong notes via listening to your pattern, and transposing, shorten/lengthen blocks is currently a matter of ms) and by far not as composition-tool.
I want to make music with the keys, not with the mouse.
and if you really implement PR please in a separate window with an option in the preferences to never show up! PR is death for Renoise.
Wow! I never thought there were so many piano roll haters around!
I’ll not try to convert anyone, but here’s my reasoning why it is useful: when you record long passages played on a MIDI keyboard, notes more or less fall on whichever sub-track is free at the time. This results in a chaotic mess of note-ons and note-offs that you could hardly ever tweak afterwards and keep your blood pressure at normal levels.
With a piano roll you have an orderly representation of what you played. It takes milliseconds to see how notes flow and relate to each other and much easier to tweak.
Mind this, I too don’t need a piano roll for stuff I’ve entered with the computer keyboard at all. I need it for the stuff I record live, as there I have no control on what goes where.
As for this particular vertucal design, there’s one more reason why I love it so much - you have it side by side with the tracker view and all correlation is immediately obvious. If there ever is a PR in Renoise - I want this one!
Okay, majority of us, renoisers are soundtrackers babies, i won t need any piano roll… BUT that would be the biggest commercial feature of ever. As a Jehova witness i try to convince a maximum of people to use Renoise and the 2 things which prevent them to join are often PIANO ROLL and ARRANGER missing.
If you find a way to integrate them without bothering the oldschool trackerists community, i m quite sure that renoise will become as successfull as FLS or Ableton and the devs will become rich famous and successfull with limousines and private jets (take me for a trip sometimes )
When I purchased renoise …almost a year ago …I defenetily needed a piano roll …at least I thought I did …after a year …it would still be a welcome addition but not as crucial anymore …
fact - It takes some time to get used to tracking …but once you get the hang of it …it becomes a second nature …
I dreamt about renoise piano roll last night… AND IT S HIGHLY UNCOMPATIBLE WITH THE PATTERN COMMAND!!!
it will be visually wrong in lots of cases…
THE ONE WHO WILL BRING ME AN ACCEPTABLE PIANO ROLLED VIEW OF A TORTURED TRICKED MASHED DESTROYED AMEN BREAK WILL DEFINITLY CONVINCE ME BUT… I STILL WAITING and i really dont know how effects like delays or others playing effects, multi samples used on same channel etc can be graphicly translated… if they re not, piano roll will be wrong
when editing a pattern the controller makes sure that both the view are updated.
So if you prefer editing in the pattern: you can do so.
If you prefer the pianoroll: you can do so
Anyway, is i read somewhere, the current model is based on discrete ticks, this makes precise editing impossible (because we have a discrete grid).
Proffesional sequencer have a continues time model. So you can place notes with miliseconds precision. This cannot be done with renoise.
The tick based model is a subset of the continues based model: Whatever can be done with ticks can also be done in the continues model, not the other way around.
Therefore we first must change the model, and then change the pattern editor (patternView) end then add a PianoRoll view. As you can see: a lot of programming and rewriting is needed.
Anyway. Never say that pattern/track based editing and the pianoroll are incompatible: The arent!
Sorry but there are still ticks (as i read your link, i read it already a time ago).
There are tickes per line, so still a discrete model and not a continous model that is needed for the pianoroll.
So my argument is still valid.
Or do i not understand something?
What you need is milisecond accuracy, so you need a continous time model, not a tick based discrete model.
Off course we can still use the pattern-editor but when you need more accuracy you can use the pianoroll.
btw: that zooming feature is really usefull, with a continous model one could zoom in infinetly
For example:
beat = 1 second
4 lines per beat ( 250 ms per line)
After zoom: 8 lines per beat (125 ms per line)
Renoise timing 2.0’s engine has been overhauled. From the link:
TPL is there so we, oldschool trackers, can use effect commands like we know and love them. They don’t have any thing to do with timing anymore. The engine has completely changed. Interface to that engine is something for the future, as you described.
This is why 2.0 is a big deal. Everything inside Renoise has changed to pave the road for the future.
Super Awesome!
I missed that part in your link, sorry.
So a pianoroll is coming?
By the way, i am a programmer myself, and it is too bad that renoise is not open source. Or allows plugins of some kind. Then i could program some functionality myself!
Anyway i understand the reason that it is not open source
And thanks for your time and information!
Renoise rocks!
What about this …some thing like a piqano rol feature in the custom lfo waveform ::::When we use the stepwaves ( you know the one with bars) in the custom lfo waveform and asign it to pitch of an vst we can do pretTy much do the3 same thing
SO somethimg like a little stepsequencer in the lfo, monophonic or polyphonic ( covering the whole octave range) doen’t seem to hard to implement …the lfo is already there …so add a tiny piano roll as a custom waveshape
i know people use pianoroll a lot in cubase, sonar, logic and such
but honestly, I still don’t get it… why do we need this in renoise? i’m probably missing something
I was experimenting with Klavar notation, which has a vertical approach like trackers. But found it cumbersome because I could not immediately see the intervals used, when counterpoint was used, when harmony and melody was used… Although I still might use Klavar notation for others since the “what you see is what you play” approach is easier to explain. And the piano to guitar or vise versa translations, atleast in some sketches, looks easier.
Now I use quad ruled graph paper with some tracker ideas forged with some musical theory, synthesis, general mixing ideas… to track my notations, but now I can see, in one look, the equation behind the music. For now, it’ll do what I want it to do, keep in memory a piece of music on paper and trackers. Until I figure out some kind of grand mnemonic scheme.
That’s the thing for me or what was driving me crazy. What are the invented equations of music, How can I see them all in time, Can I play what I see without getting distracted by the equations.
Only problem i see is how you would actually fit several pianorolls vertically, even for people with low resolution screens 
