Question:
What would change for you, if Renoise or a tracker in general would have a pianoroll included?
hmm,
I just read that the new version of Fruityloops has interconnectability option with the jeskola BUZZ tracker… Since Fryityloops are open platform wouldn’t it be great if Renoise could also benefit of interconnectability with it?
Perhaps the midiroll would not even need to be incorporated to renoise if such big companies such as the creators of fruity are openly willing to co-operate with other program manufacturers… That might also sort out the GUI-wise hard to tackle issues of trying to add a totally different method of editing into an already perfectly functioning concept such as tracking.
I haven’t actually tried what this interconnectability actually means but i’m gessing it might be something like re-wire in terms of features… someone please clarify if i got the whole concept wrong.
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I just read that the new version of Fruityloops has interconnectability option with the jeskola BUZZ tracker… Since Fryityloops are open platform wouldn’t it be great if Renoise could also benefit of interconnectability with it?
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You can install FL as a VSTi since about version 5 or 6. That makes it somewhat possible to use in conjunction with Renoise, though I’ve never used it so I’m not sure how.</0x000056285157b460>
yeah i tried that…
Thanks for the tip anyways 
when i tried it about 2 years ago (renoise 1.5 and fl studio 5), there was a huge problem with the playback from fruity having lots of static (i mean LOTS), therefore making it useless. i don’t know if it was just a problem with my setup, or an incompatibility between the programs. i wonder how well it functions now with new versions of both? i should try again
well, I’m quite conservative about this. I don’t like “all in one” programs. Do you imagine Reason with tracking interface? I don’t.
Renoise would never have been what it is today if the developers would be as conservative as you are. If Renoise gets a piano roll it will not be less a tracker than it is today, it will only have more tools that helps while composing, and if you think that is a bad thing you probably shall look at some other music program rather than keep on using Renoise. If you do not want new things in your tracker, then go and get dosbox and run FT2 on it, or perhaps try out skale-tracker, a tracker that really can’t leave hold of the past 
I’m so sick and tierd of this attitude, i have heard it from a few loud throats here over and over for the past years, that Renoise shall not get this and shall not get that because then it would not be a tracker, and Renosie shall be as similar as FT2 as it can, else it wont be a tracker… but we all know this is just plain bullshit. FT2 was just a pretty abortive clone of ProTracker for the PC, and ProTracker was maybe fun back then, in the early 90th, but it is definitely not fun to use it today if you want to br more than just nostalgic, if you stll not agree, then please go and get UAE and run ProTracker rather than Renoise and we will all be happy. I’m very glad that renoise released that FT2 complex it had in its early days and started to evolve, and I said it before and I say it again: If Renoise shall keep on being the best program out there it can not afford to be conservative.
well put, twilek.
personally, i am neither for or against a piano roll in renoise, because i absolutely don’t miss it… however i am pretty sure that renoise would gain a lot more attention from musicians if there was a PR - and the more users there are, the more secure renoise’s future will become, at least in my logic…
so it absolutely can’t be a bad thing as long as it would not hinder the tracking-workflow in any way.
that said, i absolutely do not mind to have a PR inside renoise and nobody else should as well, because it simply doesn’t make any sense to not want it just in order to keep some already dead and crippled spirits alive.
once this thread degenerated into lamentations and infighting aboot whether or not a piano roll would tarnish the pure-tracking image of renoise, i kinda lost interest in it.
i think it would be neat. for perspective, i have been making music with computers for 15 years, and i have never successfully composed a piece of music on a piano roll oriented piece of music software. it’s all been trackers and live instrumentation.
depending on how the piano roll is implemented i think it would be kind of neat to track something out and then see how it looks in the piano roll view. adding features is not really a bad thing. getting too philosophical about your tools is not really productive, and i’d liken the disdain over a piano roll in renoise to someone not liking a swiss army knife because it happens to have a corkscrew on it.
The thing many people don’t realize though, is that a pianoroll (or lets just call it a graphical editor for notes) would be just as useful as automation is the graphical editor for many pattern commands.
So why are we not fighting about the automation window?
Perhaps that thing is actually a useful tool?
I think many ppl would learn to really like a PR in renoise. It’s just so many things that you can edit much faster in it. Just like the automation window is useful for many tasks that would be very cumbersome to do in the pattern editor.
It’s not like the PR will replace the pattern editor. So let us please stop all this bullshit talk, and get this thread on topic again.
We should seek and discuss the best possible way to implant a graphical pattern/note view into a tracker.
And not talk about how much you hate [insert traumatic experience with a classical sequencer here].
Let’s try to find the best solution for Renoise. A solution that most people will find nifty to use.
I’d love a piano roll just to see how what I tracked looks like, but I don’t really see me composing in it.
Here’s my idea of how a Piano roll could look like. There’s of course lots of room there to toss in som tools for editing the notes or drawing notes by hand. After trying this a Vertical piano roll doesnt look that odd after all. Makes more sence than a horizontal when thinking about it. Dunno, but the effect column was hidden in this picture, but why would you need it? I think a piano roll track would be used for editing notes, not for coding (tracking) so swithing to Regular track view or a “show/hide” button for the effect column could be handy.
In the picture there’s also a “Minimized Track” Though that might be handy since Patterns tend to get quite wide for me at least. Probably even wider with new features like this. The only thing missing is a vertical Automation track, I’ll try insert one later but i think that might look strange. The minimized track has lots of room to add neat buttons for special features like a fast “Render Track to Sample Button” or other nice stuff.
Let me know what you think. There’s lot’s of room for improvement, but this gives you an idea what it could actually look like =)
I like the “minimize track” button idea, that’s really cool
but GEH
That picture looks nice, actually.
My main concern with verticality is less space. But that could somehow be solved with a zoom-out and it would be nice to have the possibility to edit notes across different patterns.
dont like it? then dont use it © (i dont remember who say it))
I think we could have both a vertical piano roll like that in the picture and a more ‘traditional’ horizontal one which could open in a new big window, separated from the rest.
And a horizontal piano roll could also be visible in a [horizontal] arranger.
I would also like to see piano roll [if possible - vertical and horizontal, changeable by user]. then Renoise will make attention from even more serious music world and there will be hundreds thousands of new users!
I have never used PianoRoll but if I’ll be a Renoise programmer I`ll definitelly implement it in future :]
Keep it up, ppl!
Lareux I like the minimize track design.
I also really like the visualization of the pianoroll.
But there are two things I think should be taken into account when designing a minimized track view.
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I think we should be able to group tracks. What should a minimized group look like? And how would it expand?
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I think we should be able to view the track at the same time as a pianoroll And as a Patterntrack, what would that look like?
I’ll get back to the scetchboard and update the picture a bit. I have a good idea of how track groups could look like, both with and without minimized track. Either way i don’t know why you would want to see both the pianoroll track and the regular track?? An easy switch between the 2 is in my point of view the best option. But I could make a scetch of how it could look like.
I would like diagonal editing, and perhaps circular cause it would look cool. And it would be nice if i could change the direction of it, sometimes i want it to scroll from bottom left corner and up to top right corner and opposite when i feel like it etc. Those who dont like it dont have to use it. It will take alot of time for the programmers of course, but im patient and i’m sure everything else can wait. Personally i dont care too much about all the geeky details, i believe improving the visual features of Renoise is most important, and how fast i can finish a song. Oh, that reminds me, where can i find the cheat codes for this game? It would be really nice if someone could post them here or message them to me, cause i dont have time to compose new songs from the beginning every time. It would be really helpful to skip patterns or even straight to the end, so i can just listen to the finished result.
