Hey, no stress please. The more you know, the more you expect and hope, the more we are stressed to do the things you expected/we promised. Relax, explore the tools you have now and look forward to use new tools.
We wont tell at any point what exactly we are working on when. Because our plans constantly change/evolve and because releases should be like Christmas, using this ideas and suggestions as the base for Renoises future.
I think that the new RNI format should be considered in parallel with clips as discussed here:
https://forum.renoise.com/t/concept-xrni-clips-modular/22289
In a nutshell, it’s modular instruments — a module is a generator or effect, and one of the generator types is “clip”.
@ martyfmelb:
I really like the modular approach in your clips thread at the designers forum. I have some criticism though regarding the graphical mock-up representation of your ideas:
Maybe it is just me and I have to get accustomed to the idea, but there is to much going on in screen imo. Although it follows the current Renoise gui logic, it feels crammed and busy. Lots of tree structures and text, a Renoise n00b could probably get lost in.
Maybe the ‘instrument flowchart’ could also have a dedicated larger screen version next to your current ideas. Since these flowcharts can get intricately big quite easy, you’ll need more space for better overview.
i agree with you jonas. I really like martyfmelb’s mock-up and it looks exciting - but it feels way too busy. keep at it though because you’ve got a great idea!
Advanced Device Chaining for the new RNI.
I like the way the instrument editor works at the moment, but showing envelopes even though they are disabled is very useless. Creating a new instrument from scratch you could start with just a regular Volume envelope. Then you could add more envelopes as you go and have each one control a certain parameter. It could be anything from cutoff to pitch to lofimat parameters in the effect chain.
Maybe it could be possible to have all devices as Modules that you add when needed rather than just pack the screen with many new stuff that you dont even use. Like adding DSP’s from the DSP list you could add Envelopes, Effects, LFO’s and whatever you needed to create your own custom device.
Grouping samples in layers and assigning an LFO controlling parameters in samples in that layer/group. Or creating Envelopes controlling global parameters, would be really neat. Much like the NN-XT in Reason but you add the modules you need yourself.
Why not add a “portamento device”, or an “arpreggio” device, or an Envelope controlling EQ parameters. So in order to get the best out of this you would need to update the routing capabilites.
This is just a quick scetch of how you could route things working with a “workbench” or a advanced device chaining system to create your own miracles from scratch. Maybe even some simple oscillators could be added and you would have a simple softsynth as well. I really hope someone understands the wierd layout of this map. But it’s just and idea of how things could be routed. And possibilities are endless.
To put things simpler. I would like to add Multiple inputs per DSP/Device-slider or sample rather than create multiple outputs and assign them to different DSP’s.
Let’s say you want to control cutoff with both an LFO and an Envelope. What would be simpler than for example Rightclick(Hold) the slider and select a device to control that slider. It could be anything from Velocity Devices, Lfo’s, Envelopes, etc.
Get it?
Sample 1- Volume ------> Select input. -------> Envelope 1
Sample 1- Pan --------- > Select input ----------> Lfo 1
Sample 1- Filter --------> Select input ---------> Envelope 2 & Lfo 1
Sample 2- Volume ---- > Select input ---------> lfo1
Layer 2-Volume(global) --> Select input ----> Envelope 3 & Keytrack 1 & Velocity 1
This way you can reuse Envelopes, Lfo’s and other devices for other instruments sliders etc, instead of creating more and more, making things messyer than they have to be.
Or when working with DSP’s in the chain afterwards.
Filter 2 - Slider 1 -------- Select input -----> Automation & Envelope
Filter 2 - Slider 2 ------- Select input -----> Lfo & Velocity 2
mpReverb (1)-Room Size — Select input -----> Automation & Lfo 2
midi CC device - Slider 22 ------ Select input ------ Lfo 3
I’ll try to make a photoshop mockup of how this new rni functionality could work. This way you can be certain that Automation for instance only will be used for the parameter you selected. With this system you would be better off loading the Meta devices in your instrument/sample browser instead of adding them to the chain since they could possibly be used for multiple devices and parameters.
as audience suggested I hereby file this under the current thread:
One great virtue of the current system is that it’s pretty simple. Hopefully we won’t lose that in whatever we do next.
Some kind of velocity and key tracking for the envelopes would definitely be useful though.
The interesting thing about the current system is that if you ignore most of the instrument features and build your own out of filter plugins, lfos, velocity devices etc. you can make a much more flexible instrument. Maybe we could add an envelope modulator alongside the lfo modulator? At least for monophonic stuff that would be adequate.
Yes, the idea is that you can add devices to build your instruments as well.
You can already do the monophonic stuff right now using the custom waveform in the LFO device together with the Velocity Device. Check it out!
Good idea. I forgot about the custom lfo.
go modular
+1 for multylayering " thing" !
You are going to change envelopes to min/max type and put modulation amount parameter to destination to have reusable envelopes, aren’t you?
I’ve seen so many involved ideas for the future of RNI that my head is spinning!
To me it’s more important to fix what’s fundamentally wrong with the format before going hog-wild.
Here are a couple things that will make the format a lot more useful to people without a lot of programming:
In the wild ideas category I only have one: unison mode for layers: Specify how many “voices” and the “detune” amount. Wouldn’t take up much screen real estate, and if you only did this one thing you’d allow for some serious phatness.
There. Done. It won’t solve everyone’s problems, but it’s a great start.
-Steven
If we strip all existing envelopes and allow DSP effects to be jacked into instruments and connect them to the automation, this already allows one to make the instrument editor a bit more tidy. Plus then we can focus on raising the resolution of the automation editor and fix one and the same problem on multiple areas.
Multilayers is definately no 1 change for the XRNI 2 layout.
Hi,
As it was said there before some relatively simple changes could improve synthesis part of Renoise tremendously. Key/vel tracking for the first. Element like multilayering known from “S+S” synthesisers like Fantom/Motif for the second.
It’d be nice to have element to effects routing per instrument too. Again not unlike I’ve seen in Motif.
Main attraction for me lies in Renoise “effective simplicity”. There should be only essentials included, save complexities (and bloat) for some external plugins.
Hello, a FEG and PEG envelope should be very useful, adsr+amount.
Pictures:
and if you could connect 2 oscillators/samples into one ring modulator, that’s the right magic
Definitely split envelopes into “contour” and “env amount” so you can change the amount of envelope applied.
Increase the resolution of envelopes so you can actually get a nice envelope “snap” A simple ASDR envelope setting like the previously posted graphics syner provided would make life a lot easier.
Personally, I’m a fan of the way sample layers were handled in the E-mu 4k series: You have keymap layers that are then stacked. They can have different key ranges, transposition settings, etc. Simple. I don’t need 100 sample layers right now: three or four would be good for a start, and I’ll even settle for two layers for now.
One last thing: It seems that the sample and instrument editors are currently based on FT2 more because of familiarity and tradition rather than anything else. I always loved trackers, but I was never a fan of the way their instrument editors worked. 
My biggest wish for Instruments (besides layering) is that instrument slots could look at a sample by reference instead of each instrument slot having its own copy of the sample loaded into memory.
Let me explain: in Live, you can have many copies of the same sample with different Warp stuff happening, different envelopes, and and different start/end/loop points. All of them reference the same wave and that wav is only in RAM once.
What I really want is to be able to take a sample and chop it up into a drum instrument without each slot having to have its own sample. I just want each slot to look at the same waveform with a different start/end/loop point.