I guess basically chopping is tighter compared to offset, it’s not
a matter of what is better, but what you’re after… rattle or just roll
cutting loops in renoise wave editor works good enough for me,
making drumstruments, because generate drum kit IS your friend
cool thanks for the advice, that thread you posted is pretty interesting 
i allmost don’t use the those commands
if your working with high speed (i work from 180 till 800 bpm) it works easier to chop everthing up in the editor
even without new pattern-commands, markers can be really usefull if one is able to distribute the marker over the keyboard, so you can trigger the marker starts and program them in with the keyboard without having to cut up a sample.
which still leaves you with tweaking the loop to fit the tempo…
hypothese time:
unless I’m mistaken, using markers won’t change the pitch, so whenever
you’d trigger a snare, for example, the tempo of the loop is still the same
and most often offbeat, unless you’re using ONLY markers to get the beat to work,
so as to trigger the next hit on time, before the tempo of the loop, as opposed to
the tempo of the track, farks up.
so markers or cutting… is the same deal, except once you mark, you can’t go bark err back ?
The way I imagined it was that the markers could be moved at any time 
Don’t know how feasable that is though…
It would be even better if each marker section had it’s own loop setting. You could have a ping pong loop for each marker, so when you pitch drum hits up they will sustain properly.
Actually, now would be a good time to ask: how does everyone else chop and layer their beats?
I find the process of chopping up beats then resequencing them in Renoise quite slow. For example, if I’m trying to audition breaks for layering it takes too long to find out which ones fit together properly. If I use the sample sync function the breaks play at different pitches…
Skunk-face.
I have still not got to the bottom of how to REALLY use breaks in renoise. I have asked a load of times and have never got a straight answer.
Funnily enough, I tried to have a crack at making a track with a break in it tonight (odd, yeah) and I found that it was impossible to do the things I used to do in cubase very easily.
A loop in recycle, exported as audio slices, with matching midi could be loaded into cubase (and I am sure any other horizontal seq.) and the two could be used to play the original break IN EXACTLY THE WAY THE DRUMMER PLAYED IT BUT FASTER…
The midi is adjusted with the actual position configuration of the midi hits (and therefore original drum hits) completely as they were when the drummer played them. Speeding up just made the same groove play faster.
In Renoise I literally can not think of a way to do this.
In Cubase, you can do all I said before, and then zoom in on the midi hits and line up EXACTLY all your extra hits. By ‘EXACTLY’ I mean right down to the highest god damn resolution.
Again, this is not possible in Renoise (Ticks, and no Audio tracks being the problem)
If anyone can tell me how to do this in Renoise in its current version I will be very very happy.
(If anyone is confused, I will provide diagrams)
That’s what I’m talking about Worm-face!
FWIW, the only way I can see to do it is to reprogram the break in the pattern sequencer… You loose the groove this way (well, unless you only chop the ‘big’ hits) because, like you say, the beats are always gonna be quantised. I just can’t seem to find a method that allows full control and quick ease of use. Hmmm, I think I have an idea, I’ll post it in the suggestions forum.
Yeah exactly mate. If anyone can tell me a satisfactory way to use breaks in Renoise like you can in Cubase as I described above, I would be very happy (and surprised, to be honest)
yeah ive been finding, after 2 weeks on this, that there really isnt a way to do it well.
(unless of course ive missed something)
ive tried to recreate breaks using inidividual hits, but on some breaks its just taking far too long, and theres always something that doesnt sound quite right (which i think is getting the groove exactly right)
recycle and midi like wormjar said is the best way, but obviously this doesnt help us in renoise. i think something could be incorporated which will give us more flexibility.
lining up your own drum samples with the break is whats lacking at the moment as there is no visual clue as to where the break’s hits are.
i’ll go take a look at what you said in the suggestions forum, dr. skunk.
i usually just cut (in renoise sample editor) single hits out of many different breaks and make my own breaks out of them. i dont care about the original groove or anything like that. i think its more creative that way too.
^ what he said
I been using renoise for about 6 months now and 09XX changed my life.
how about something like an instance of Intakt or another slicer plugin? (as a workaround)
The guys ive seen in the hip hop style beats ( computer guys not so much MPC) they kinda leave it up to ther ears to hear the groove.
manually moving (note dx or watnot) is essential for free flowin grrooves in the slower tempos for those style hip hop, rnb, soul, trip hop etc
but ALL methods and sounds are useable It’s just HOW you go about it.
so those rigid beats need organic overlays
and the organic beats can use rigid overlays etc etc
also I have already begun the monumental task of prechopping all my break samples( well useable ones) at zeroX’s so I can just fly with it in renoise.
its gotta be done
I absolutely 100% agree with you on this. It is all about the unique approach with knowledge.
BUT… (and I am almost not bothered to post this, as I dont use this technique)
how to you cut breaks and maintain the groove in renoise???
Here is one method I’ve used in the past. It’s not perfect - no method really is - but maybe it’ll give you a better idea of how to get what you want.
Let’s imagine that we have a perfectly timed drumloop which is 4 beats long (and contains 16th notes in this example). If we were to apply the sample offset command to it, the results would look something like this:
00 C-400 .. 0900
01 C-400 .. 0910
02 C-400 .. 0920
03 C-400 .. 0930
04 C-400 .. 0940
05 C-400 .. 0950
06 C-400 .. 0960
07 C-400 .. 0970
08 C-400 .. 0980
09 C-400 .. 0990
0A C-400 .. 09A0
0B C-400 .. 09B0
0C C-400 .. 09C0
0D C-400 .. 09D0
0E C-400 .. 09E0
0F C-400 .. 09F0
That’s fine for a “straight” loop which has no swing/groove in it, but it’s not very useful for live breaks because the kicks, snares, highhats, etc. probably fall on imprecise sample offset positions.
So let’s take a live break such as funkydrummer, amen, etc., something with a bit of swing to it. By examining the break in Renoise’s sample editor we can find the correct (or as close as possible) sample offset positions of all the hits within the loop. If we reconstruct the loop once more it might look something like this:
00 C-400 .. 0900
01 C-400 .. 0911
02 C-400 .. 0922
03 C-400 .. 0930
04 C-400 .. 0941
05 C-400 .. 0950
06 C-400 .. 0962
07 C-400 .. 0971
08 C-400 .. 0980
09 C-400 .. 0992
0A C-400 .. 09A1
0B C-400 .. 09B0
0C C-400 .. 09C2
0D C-400 .. 09D1
0E C-400 .. 09E2
0F C-400 .. 09F1
So now we’re triggering the correct points in the live break but the original groove of the break has been quantized/lost in the fixed pattern structure.
Now it’s time to put the groove back in there by using the note delay command. Before this I first set my song to speed 12 or 16. Speed 16 will give you “perfect” results since there are 16 divisions inbetween 0900 and 0910, 0910 and 0920, etc., therefore allowing you to delay the note by the exact same value to match the sample offset, but speed 12 is totally fine too and will be simpler to deal with in terms of the overall bpm.
00 C-400 .. 0900
01 C-400 D1 0911
02 C-400 D2 0922
03 C-400 .. 0930
04 C-400 D1 0941
05 C-400 .. 0950
06 C-400 D2 0962
07 C-400 D1 0971
08 C-400 .. 0980
09 C-400 D2 0992
0A C-400 D1 09A1
0B C-400 .. 09B0
0C C-400 D2 09C2
0D C-400 D1 09D1
0E C-400 D2 09E2
0F C-400 D1 09F1
Wherever we had a sample offset value such as 0941, we take that last digit and delay the note by the same amount. This means the drum sounds are being triggered at the correct point AND the correct time to maintain the groove. Now you can easily speed up your song and the drum groove should be maintained.
Like I said, this method is not perfect. It doesn’t work well if you’re trying to slow down the bpm. Also, since we’re using speed 12 (or 16) which forces us to (at least) double our bpm, you lose some flexibility if you plan to automate the bpm using the F0xy command since that can currently only go up to F0FF which is 255bpm.
Anyway, hope this helps a little bit at least. If it doesn’t make sense I will do a demo song when I get home later tonight.
.
wow thats a lot of trouble to maintain the original groove of a sample, respect I’d probably just use another app if I’d need this kind of thing…use renoise for the crazy over the top jungle programming!
f… , 9… , d. , groovesettings and/or simply cutting up samples leaving some random space before the attacks are sufficient for groove, why would you want to perfectly imitate the groove of an original break in the first place?
Like a2n3d7y said, if so make a .rex file out of the break and load it up in a vsti like kontakt.
Yeah. Honestly I hardly ever bother doing it either, just once in a while. But wormjar kept asking so I figured I would chime in 
Bottom line: It’s impractical but possible.
im glad you did
but could you just explain why the first bit of code you posted is different from the last bit of code?
hope im not being stupid but … wouldnt they sound exactly the same? 