Compressor Meters And Maximizer Release

[Rxn]

@vV

I presume you did the testing only with the compressor and no other (send)devices in the chain? (Just to exclude side-effects from other devices)

There was a gainer before the compressor, which I took into account, and also a send afterwards for a reverb, which was muted anyway. Nothing else.

[Rxn]

@dblue

My apologies then. When you mentioned that you had both attack and release set to 0.001ms, this just threw me off a little bit, because the compressor will indeed be quite useless in that configuration.
Generally speaking, when I’m trying to dial in Renoise’s compressor, I first tend to set the ratio to max (LIMIT). For me, this just makes it easier to set the threshold where I want it to be and get a handle on how the gain reduction is being applied. After that it’s just fine-tuning everything to achieve the overall desired character.

That was purely for the sake of purity. I had a signal just touching on the +2dB mark, so decided to use some compression to soften the peaks without limiting. My math was very simple:

set the threshold to -4dB, which gives us a range of 6dB to the peak of the signal, then apply a ratio of 2:1, so that we should get around the ideal peak of -1dB with a very short attack, which then would be relaxed slowly until it gets to 0dB. The release is not really relevant in this case, as long as it is not too long.

However the basic compressor did not let me arrive at these results, it did not seem to do any compression at all. At the same time the bus compressor works exactly according to the math, taking its minimal attack time of 10ms into account.

[Rxn]

am thinking now that it was poor choice of forum section to post this question in, but anyway.

These are the settings that I am using do what I described just above. As we can see, both compressors have pretty much identical settings. The only difference is that the bus compressor works exactly according to the plan, while basic compressor does not compress at all, according to the peak readings from the master.

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EDIT: Actually, looked into the settings and peaks again, the bus compressor perform darn close to theoretically predicted results.

[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

What does the audio peak at, without the compressor? Should the threshold not start there? I never see movement on the meters, on any comp, unless the audio is it least hitting the threshold… or am I totally wrong?

Now that I am looking at Renoise… I believe the center bar is, “gain reduction.”

[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

These compressors are kicking in with their threshold right about there…

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Renoise project file…

https://www.box.com/s/d2de0bb935406f3f0969

[Rxn]

@2 daze j

What does the audio peak at, without the compressor? Should the threshold not start there? I never see movement on the meters, on any comp, unless the audio is it least hitting the threshold… or am I totally wrong?

It peaks at about +2dB for the left channel and about +0.3dB on the left without any compression. If I pass it through the basic compressor, nothing changes. If I pass it through the bus compressor, it hits around -1dB on the left channel, as per my estimations. It happens on a six column track, btw, I have a wild guess that it has something to do with it.

[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

Well… Compressors are very funny. For example, I have a favorite compressor I love to use for my drums… However, sometimes this compressor does not compress so well, and I use a different compressor for my drums!

Actually, compressor are like microphones! You can not have, “just one microphone.” It is so true. And also… I like the Renoise compressors, being similar in sound to the Kjaerhus… That is a very good comparison.

But you know… If there is, “a bug,” with the compressor, I would not know. The only thing I really compress is drums… and for that I use a pspaudioware…

But I do think, if I ever get to make, “very bad major label music,” then I am going to squash everything to bits… Squash, pummel, destroy!

[Rxn]

I have tried to reproduce it in a different module but it didn’t work for some reason, both compressors were working about the same way without following my predictions. I had the signal peaking at 0dB on master using a gainer (since there is a 6dB headroom on tracks) and tried to bring it to -2dB using either of the compressors with a -4dB threshold, 2:1 ratio and a very short attack.

Instead this time they both put the peak to about - .3dB, so now I am just posting a pattern from the module I was working on where the issue consistently manifests itself. I had to convert the samples to ogg format to save some space, it changed the peaks somewhat but the issue is still obvious.

Module.

Watch the peak readings on the master track while enabling and disabling the compressor.

[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

@Rxn

I have tried to reproduce it in a different module but it didn’t work for some reason, both compressors were working about the same way without following my predictions. I had the signal peaking at 0dB on master using a gainer (since there is a 6dB headroom on tracks) and tried to bring it to -2dB using either of the compressors with a -4dB threshold, 2:1 ratio and a very short attack.

Instead this time they both put the peak to about - .3dB, so now I am just posting a pattern from the module I was working on where the issue consistently manifests itself. I had to convert the samples to ogg format to save some space, it changed the peaks somewhat but the issue is still obvious.

Module.

Watch the peak readings on the master track while enabling and disabling the compressor.

Here is where your track is peaking…

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The above tool is freeware, very useful btw, and @ sonalkis.com ( spelling error maybe )

Using the tool above, I was able to decipher that you probably need a look ahead limiter. I suggest the freeware version of Event Horizon… ( if it still exists. ) in the Reaplugs pack, at Reaper.fm

Event Horizon is taming this very nicely

Cheers

[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

I’m using the payware, Event Horizon… Good stuff. I’ve had it for years, and you just surprised me again with, “how good it is, and how worth the money it is.” I don’t recall the freeware one with VU meters, but I could be wrong… Download the demo, or whatever, and you can hear what it does to your track…

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Why, you have everything pushing zero? I guess you have a reason.

Cheers

[Rxn]

 Thanks, captain Obvious! 

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[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

never mind, have a pleasant day dude…

btw, the sonalksis thing is freeware… it shows rms, its really precise. i’m using it all the time… cause a lot of times my volume goes below where renoise shows me. cause i mix very quiet… there is no need to, “hate on the freeware.”

[Rxn]

What makes you think I hate freeware?

[Rouwe]

@2 daze j

Why, you have everything pushing zero? I guess you have a reason. Cheers

Why not push zero? As long as it’s not clipping or altered too much by the compressor why not? Cutting peaks no one can hear is fine by me, I don’t see the problem. The false dichotomy loudness war guys create is ridiculous. It doesn’t have to be squashed or no compressor at all.

@2 daze j

“hate on the freeware.”

What? Who’s hating freeware here? I don’t see what you’re getting at.

[vvoois (vV)]

@Rxn

I have tried to reproduce it in a different module but it didn’t work for some reason, both compressors were working about the same way without following my predictions. I had the signal peaking at 0dB on master using a gainer (since there is a 6dB headroom on tracks)

You don’t necesarily need to compensate that with a gainer, in the “song” tab you can set the track headroom from -6 to 0.

[Rxn]

@vV

You don’t necesarily need to compensate that with a gainer, in the “song” tab you can set the track headroom from -6 to 0.

I don’t think it would make the outcome of the experiment any different.

[kazakore]

As there is an Attack time I wouldn’t expect your Peak readings to be affected that much. Transient hits with a peak, after x amount of time the level is lowered, but the initial peak level has still been allowed to pass.

[2_daze_j (Jonathan)]

@kazakore

As there is an Attack time I wouldn’t expect your Peak readings to be affected that much. Transient hits with a peak, after x amount of time the level is lowered, but the initial peak level has still been allowed to pass.

Ooh, good call!

[Rxn]

@kazakore

As there is an Attack time I wouldn’t expect your Peak readings to be affected that much. Transient hits with a peak, after x amount of time the level is lowered, but the initial peak level has still been allowed to pass.

That is why I had the attack set to 0.001ms.

It still was not necessary, because the bus compressor brought the peaks down even with the attack of 0.5ms anyway.

[Rxn]

I think I have finally figured it out. It appears that the ratio setting behaves strangely.
I put a 0dB sine through the compressor with the initial settings of -20dB, 2:1 with whatever attack/release. Now, according to the ratio (or to the way it is commonly understood), 20 dB of the signal over the threshold should produce a -10 dB peak. However, it is not the case (look at the continual peak, the other values are contaminated and irrelevant):

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As we can see the result is only a 2.54 dB reduction of the signal. In order to get the sought after -10 dB increase, one should the ratio to about 11:1 Don’t ask me why, but that is how it works. Now, coming back to my original post, if I want to have the threshold at -4 dB and have the reduction of the peak to -2 dB, it appears that I need to set the ratio to 9:1

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If anyone would be willing to figure out the formula one needs to use to interpolate to conventional ratio values, that would be awesome.