Control Vsti With Midi

[aust (rvxi)]

Fair enough, I see how it breaks too many of the current paradigms to be feasible.

I do like being able to just start grabbing parameters and tweaking them right away. Having to set up and route each parameter - this does seem like one of the few areas where the interface gets “in the way” a bit.

Maybe one solution is to enable recording / parameter entry mode through the VSTi GUI (perhaps a second checkbox or button next to “enable keyboard” checkbox). If a parameter is changed in the GUI that isn’t routed already, it gets automatically gets routed to an automation device on the active track. If there’s currently no automation device on that track, it gets created, along with routing to the tweaked parameter. Voila - sits within the current meta-device paradigm, solves the problem of dealing with a large number of parameters on the device (presumably the VSTi GUI already gives you access to most of them), skips the routing steps, and the option would be slightly more obvious to noobs since it’s right on the VSTi GUI window. I’m guessing this would probably a huge PITA to implement though…

~a

@kazakore

Aust:

From what you are saying the way to implement that would have Instrument Automation depend on which Instrument is selected, rather than which Track. (Unless you can describe yourself and come up for another way to do what you’re saying.)

It may work in some ways. But in others I think it would be very weird to split the two (Effects and Instrument) Automation apart from each other.

It would also make it impossible to use via the Pattern Commands as they currently stand (although I do personally think they should be extended.)

It would also especially confuse using Renoise’s native LFO and Signal Follower (and other Meta Devices) with VSTi parameters. You would still need to use a Automation Device to do so really, so wouldn’t eliminate the need for the device, just add more than one place to be able to access it, adding for more confusion than the current system.

In short I don’t think it will be any more intuitive, would limit Renoise compared to the current way of working and would extremely confuse existing users.

[kazakore]

A VSTi Parameter Learn function would be great! May help a lot of people’s confusion too.

Stop Automation/MIDI Devices being loaded up with first defined parameters assigned to the control (have them all as Null.)

You can then still assign them yourself, exactly as it works currently.

Or you can open the External Editor of an virtual instrument and Rick Click a parameter and select Assign to Automation. This would add it to the first Nulled entry of an existing Automation Device associated with the Instrument, or if there currently isn’t a spare slot it would load a new Automation Device into the current Track and assign it.

Think we’d still get a lot of questions but would help a lot with workflow even for people who are used to the current way. Especially for those times you find an synth that hasn’t given useful names to any of its parameters!

[vvoois (vV)]

@aust

Let me play the devil’s advocate here. Maybe the reason it gets asked every week is that the current scheme doesn’t make any sense.

Why is there effectively an de facto “automation device” for VST effects, but not for instruments? I can imagine one reason - the number of automation parameters for VST instruments is generally larger. But selection of automation parameters could be built into the design without having this esoteric workflow step of creating an automation device.

One of the selling points of a tracker is efficient parameter control, automating instrument parameters should require as few steps as possible.

It would be more logic if the VST instrument would also be displayed in the effect list for representing the instrument parameters directly, i’ll give you that.
But the only step that would be taken out is the step to actually select the instrument from the list. You still need a device for automation, because you are automating parameters of a device used in that track.
As what Kazakore and dBlue state remains a thing. Automation is not a specific DSP thing, but a track thing.

[aust (rvxi)]

As I said above, I’ve been using trackers since mmedit, I use the lua scripting API, so please don’t lecture me about being an ejay noob.

I can figure out the automation device. However, when new users (myself not included) trip over the same part of the interface every other day … it doesn’t necessarily mean that something’s wrong, but maybe it’s an indication that there may be a way to do things better.

Based on the other comments here, I acknowledged that I see how the automation device fits in. Nevertheless, imo there are some things that could make using it easier - which I suggested.

I don’t expect them to implement these ideas. It’s just a discussion, which is the point of having a forum, right? I’ll leave it at that.

@Tehnik

I don’t understand why should devs change something that is clever and works perfectly? because some newbies cant be bothered to look at the manual? this is ridiculous. Renoise is a tracker, certain things have to be done differently than in other software and thats fine. World don’t need another ejay

[Conner_Bw]

@aust

Easy man, I started writing music on mmedit, then ft2 st3 and it… im versed and you’re preaching to the choir here.

Alright, apologies.

I can sympathize with most of what you are saying, but you dropped a snide side remark, which I felt was a bit spiteful so I quipped back.

[eeter]

I agree that noobs asking this same question once a week is a clear indication that VST’i automation is something that should be improved/made more clear. But on the other side I see that the feature is already there, working, and it may be lots of additional work to redesign it.

For a moment I was thinking about that it’s still possible to use samples simultaneously with a VSTi within one instrument… Why is this necessary or even why is it possible at all? If an instrument could be just for either a VSTi or a sample based instrument then for a VSTi the Instrument Editor makes no sense anymore and we could use this same tab for both VST’i parameters AND VSTi automation. So we are discarding this additional step and tying VTSi parameters and automation with the instrument itself not the track… It kind of makes sense to me but at the same time it seems a lot of work.

EDIT: But for real… The more I think about it the more it seems pointless to have the Instrument Editor tab just vegetating there and having absolutely no use for VTSi’s.

[kazakore]

@eeter

it’s still possible to use samples simultaneously with a VSTi within one instrument… Why is this necessary or even why is it possible at all?

Very useful if you want to bring you samples into tune!