Delay Compensation?

Help, Support & Bugs
1

as i own two PCs, i’ve always been looking for a solution to use the resources of both for writing softsynth-driven music.
now, that i’ve finally found the apparently “perfect” solution, i’m encountering one last issue: the perfect sync of both machines.

so here’s my current setup:

  • P4 3.7Ghz, 1024MB RAM, 1Gbit Ethernet, running Renoise RC2 via ASIO 19ms through EMU1212m
  • P4 3.2Ghz, 512MB RAM, 1Gbit Ethernet, runnnig Xlutop Chainer v1.03 via ASIO4ALL 12ms through C-Media onboard sound.

midi-wise, the communication is enabled via “MIDIOVERLAN” drivers.

as mentioned above, the 3.2Ghz P4 is acting like a dedicated VSTi computer that is treated essentially as a multi-synth “hardware unit”, midi’d up to my primary PC, which is running Renoise RC2.

note triggering, automation and all works perfectly well. the problem starts to become obvious, when i add percussive sounds on both machines… then one can clearly tell, that there is a delay between the sound output of both machines, making the sound to be out of sync.

now renoise has a delay slider for each MIDI instrument, ranging from -50 to 50ms. unfortunately, this range is easily not broad enough as i still get delay problems @-50ms.

an easy solution to my problem, would be a delay compensation plugin, that delays the sound of my primary machine - making it sync with the delayed sound of my secondary PC.

but renoise doesn’t allow me to delay its native sound output so my question for you is:
does anybody know a plugin which i could add to renoise’s master channel in order to create a small output delay in a range of 0-150ms, for example?

make an old(?) man happy and tell me that there is such a plugin! :)

2

I have been doing this for some years now.
I havent found any sample accurate vst delay plugin yet.
But there is a DX plugin you can use with a dx-vst wrapper.

Try http://www.analogx.com/files/sslide.exe together with the ffx-4 wrapper.

Also remember that if you increase your native latency in renoise, then you can compensate more on your midi instruments. (-50ms requires at least 50ms renoise latency in the first place, but at this high latency the midi out can start acting weird).
Another cool thing is to also to use tools like FX-Teleport or Wormhole VST to stream the wave outputs from one pc to another through lan using vst.

Lets just hope Renoise will get vst compensation some day :)

cheers
-pysj

3

There is a free one from voxengo here (5th down) if this is what you are after.

4

woh woh ledger… that’s exactly what i’ve been looking for :o
thanks a lot, mate! B)
already gave the plugin a try and the 2048 preset makes the sync all perfect. jumps

i’ve heard and read about both in the past, but haven’t tried’em as of yet.
the audio signal from the secondary PC (the one with the VSTi Chainer) is currently simply looped through the inputs of my EMU1212m - works great, but audio quality is of course reduced due to the weak signal of the onboard c-media sound (quality-wise).

so thanks for linking these up, going to give’em a try.

5

Thx for the link Ledger. :)

@keith303
The advantage of FX-Teleport is that you get the signal back into Renoise.
So you see the signal in the scopes, and can prosess it further as you wish (track fx etc). Also every setting on your other computer will be saved within the renoise file. But of course this method require more latency.

-pysj

6

No probs, glad it was of use :)

7

just tried FX-Teleport.
the latencies i’ve to run at in order to get click and pop-less sound is just outrageous. i mean it surely has some advantages, but everything is laggy (changing presets for example) and tends to pop even at the highest buffer setting possible… and that’s on a CSA Gbit LAN with the above mentioned specs.

gonna give wormhole a shot tomorrow, but i aint got much hope for that one either…

8

dispite the frustration FX-Teleport bestows me, it is certainly a tool of great use and function IF there wasn’t the problem about “latency”…

i could really live with the circumstance, that i would have to take some delay between pressing and actually hearing a note, if just everything was in sync…

…well, to get everything in sync, when using FX-Tepleport is definately possible, but requires A LOT of hassle and manual configuration for each track.
i usually have to add send tracks with voxengo’s sample delay inserted, to create groups for non-teleported VST instances whereas those being teleported won’t be linked to the respective send track.
sounds okay and bearable so far?
well kind of, since adding another teleported FX to the mess will create yet more latency and the sample delay plugin by voxengo needs some tweaking again…

whilst doing this i thought like “this can’t the way which the FX-MAX coders had in mind”… and after reading some FX-Teleport reviews, my assumption has been acknowledged.

there seem to be sequencers, which feature something being called “latency compensation” (funny i called this thread just like that mmh). sequencers of that kind include Nuendo, Cubase 2.0, Samplitude and Tracktion and probably some others…

when i understood everything right, these sequencers have the ability, to automatically adjust each VST instance’s latency, according to the nominal / native latency, enabling the audio to be always perfectly in sync.

now Renoise does definately not feature this, that’s for sure… but question is, will future version do so?
if it would, i’d be definately not displeased.

so taktik and all the others, what do you think? worth adding? and if so, would the implementation be tricky or rather not?

9

Delay compensation is a must in a modern host, definately.
Though I reckon Renoise’s semi-modular routing abilities could make a solution impossible in some more complex cases.

I think the official last words on delay compenstation were that it’ll come when the new tickless engine is done.

In the meantime, use a sample delay plug…
what really wouild be handy was renoise displaying the reported buffersize of each plugin, so it’s easy to find the right delay setting.

10

I’d really like delay compensation for use with SIR.

SIR rules.

11

that’s a bummer… fear this won’t happen before 2007 then. :(

12

Though I think that a “freeze” function is much more nigh in the future, and I
believe it would be a small feat to be able to offset the frozen track a few
samples to sync.
Its a workaround, but one that is “quite” hassle free though.

13

it works good but, too bad renoise freezes

man…
one of these days i might be able to actually make something, and try something new, (but not with renoise…) without getting so pissed that i find it necessary to tell ppl about it.

man this really pisses me off! :(
this is almost depressing.

this is just strengthens my idea that the only software worth paying for will be & is OPEN SOURCE!!!

14

Or on another computer. I tell ya P4 3.0 ghz gets the party shaking.