Did Your Cat Like Renoise ?...

I think I’m not the only one thinking that there is a lot of useless stupid fights these times here in the forum, I never was an truly active poster (I really do think that all my words are useless, and my english is not so great) but I consider myself as a really active reader. These (useless stupid fights) seems to always happens on all forums I went before, this is generally called trolling.
Some people seems to have indeed the absolute knowledge, but I don’t think life is about who had the biggest ego (that subject had already caused some famous war, and still does it (ask our libyan brothers)) but more how together we can consider the point of view of everybody to better understand what we are, what we want to build, is there any beers left in the fridge.
I’m slowly getting older and older and I try to always force myself to find how can I improve my way of thinking. My recent thought leads me to think about knowledge as something infinite. That means that no matter what I do, no matter what I think there is always a way to improve it. That force me to always reconsider my thoughts.

So enough stupid bullshit for me now. These stupid fights story seems to always happens on forum, I’m wondering if any Sociologist wrote on that, so if you are aware of any books, articles or thesis on internet social life, I’m interested.
If you are aware of any documents or books about how internet is slowly changing our way of thinking, I’m interested too (the memory seems to reduce, while our access to any knowledge seems to be easier and faster than never before).

(Anticipating few reactions:Please, don’t ask me to google my search, I’m interested in the subject obviously I already did that, one: Google as you may know is not covering all the internet nor the real world, two: if I wrote a topic on that, it’s because I’m interested in your opinon too.)
(As I said before, I don’t talk to much (in real life too) because I always think that I don’t have anything interesting to say, If you are thinking this topic is pointless don’t hesitate to tell me, I will not start to insult everybody after posting that I will not use renoise anymore because I just downloaded a leaked version of fruity loop :) )

I just saw a link to this posted on Slashdot:

Disarm Trolls, Gently.

Based on ideas from Dr. David D. Burns for learning how to deal with periods of clinical depression.

i do not know of any books on the subject, mainly because i believe the prevalent opinion voiced in these works (the internet causes people to disconnect from life and each other, the internet is a form of escapism, etc) is a bunch of bullshit. i think this is a bunch of bullshit because all of the things they say about the internet they’ve said about countless other hypes, trends and whatever in the past, and will say about countless others in the future. in my opinion, the internet is just another evolutionary step (and i am not of the belief that evolution moves from bad to better per se) that people roll into, the helpless victims of their own urge towards innovation (with this point i’d like to kick down any potential conspiracists as well), and it provides them with another subject to debate about and fuss over.
people often wonder where all the people with stupid, unthoughtful, trolling and obscene opinions come from. in the news and from people in the street you will often hear that there is a feeling that things are getting worse, people are getting more stupid, more violent, more terrible than before. the fact of the matter is, these people (the trolls and general assholes) have existed all along, and nothing is getting worse; they are just getting more attention. before twitter, facebook, 4chan, forums, you’d have to walk into the right bar at the right time, or the wrong alley at the wrong time, to meet these people, being annoying and obnoxious and looking for trouble. in fact, you can still walk into those bars and alleys, but people generally spend more time online than in bars and alleys, so they feel like these people are everywhere because suddenly they get confronted with them more often.

what i’m saying is that all of this stuff is nothing new, and time does not change anything. people keep on being people and being either nice or assholes, helpfull or trolls. i do not in any way mean to bash your question with this üav, i respect you for what you do, the music you make, the fact that you beat my ass in competitions and that you take the time and effort to voice your questions and concerns. as you yourself, i think alot. too much maybe. anyway, this is my view.

edit: i haven’t read any of the books on the subject so, to speak with Radiohead once again, i might be wrong.

Without going into massive detail, I do think the forums used to be a bit more civil. I’m not for heavy admin control of trolling, but I do agree we should keep a cap on our ego’s and share our ideas freely. Especially new users / producers shouldn’t be made to feel shy. It’s intimidating having someone make a better mixed track than you, but when they then troll and gloat etc… it’s far less tolerable.

I’m always wary of doing it myself; what is sometimes intended as a gentle joke can easily be misinterpreted online.

indeed. that is probably one of the major causes of online debate and people feeling bad, all of the stuff that gets ‘lost in translation’. we have been accustomed for centuries to communicate using our entire bodies, and now, online, we only use text with a couple emoticons thrown in. no wonder people have trouble understanding each other properly. this form of communication needs to evolve.

Ahh so that’s why they always sound like mud, you’ve been toning down your mixes to stop yourself hurting the feeling of others. :P

Disclaimer: The above is quite obviously a joke. Can’t say any of kicofighto’s tracks particularly stand out in memory if I’m completely honest.

And although those two personalities, the online and real-life, seem to be analogous of each other you will often find they often don’t coexist within the same sentient being. I think you will find many of the serial trolls and “trouble makers” on forums and the internet would be meek as humble pie if you met them in real life. At least that’s how I’ve often found it to be. Same as some hard nuts (those whose fingers aren’t too fat and stubby to use a keyboard) may be helpful and friendly when it comes to the written word on the screen, a world away from if you’d spilt their pint down the pub.

Saying that that would go for my “friend” who was the biggest internet arsehole I have ever know! Serial trolling from multiple accounts, personal attacks, winding people up to the point of serious threatened violence, police involvement if the board moderators don’t provide the victim with details, attaining and posting of (I believe at the time) underage girl topless to a board of her peers who was already a little mentally unstable and not very happy with herself/where she is. And that’s probably the tip of the iceberg. Now although he definitely falls under the meek as shite in person category he does also happen to be up for murder this month for beating a Polish guy to death with a metal bar in his flat.

Now the thread where that all came out on his main haunt on the internet may be interesting reading to some. The few people who defended him but the vast majority going “well I always knew there was something wrong with him but didn’t quite expect this” but still unable to really feel any pity for the dude…

But yeah, level of sarciness and snide comments on this forum does seem a little high at the moment. Always comes and goes in swells, like the lull of the tide, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much…

The only methods I know works to tame trollism is anti-climaticsism (if that’s even a word) and making them wait for a reply.
Pairing those together is a wicked combo.
Making a troll wait for a reply must be done with tact or the troll will inevitably move to another thread.
You want to contain the troll and take the power away from the troll, that’s how waiting for a reply works.
anti-climaticsism, is very important in this context as the idea of the word is paramount to what must happen.

But the problem is most inherently want to serve the spirited trolls,
because they know they will get the rise, that testosterone and adrenalin mix, might be something else to it too.

I wish I had a cat :(

me too! (but maybe a little bit off topic )

I wish I had a cat too.
I befriended a couple stray cats at work they come from a generation of stray cats, they always come to me to get petted.
white one and black one, that’s their names too, they don’t need Christian names.
The white one will stand upright leaning against my leg to get me to pet her, it’s strangest looking thing.
It’s probably the best scenario for me and them,
I don’t think animals should ever have to live indoors.
If they could build houses that would be different though.

sociologists are trolls. On the pets side of the topic: it’s 3:30am here and i can’t sleep because both my dog and my girlfriend, who are sleeping on my bed, are snoreing like mad…

I like cats they don’t troll.

So you guys are pessimist ? Forums will always have days with and days without trolls ?

I don’t think the problem was bad jokes, it’s more the way people answer to it, few peoples always answer without thinking ‘is it to take litteraly or not?’. (be careful, one troll can hide another)
Are people always thinking the world is against them?
aw it’s my exam week, I must be working instead of hanging there in the forum.

i like dogs they don’t troll either. both cats and dogs can be quite annoying sometimes though…

i’m no pessimist, or wouldn’t call myself that at least. if you accept that things are the way they are, there is no need to feel bad about it or view it as a negative thing, which is what pessimism is (seeing the bad side instead of the good side of things).

i know i reacted to a bad joke, and the reason i did that was because moments before i saw the exact same response by the exact same person to another post around here. also, i think its an easy way out to shout something stupid, then say it was a joke when people confront you with it. its the internet, you can say anything and nobody will know if its true, most of the time at least. so maybe this is all bullshit too, and in real life i sit in a corner and cry because i’m afraid to go outside, while i pretend to be really cool online.

Yeah there were nothing against you in particular rhowaldt. When I doubt on the fact it was a joke or not, I always go to the joke even if it’s a bad one.
My point of view is :

  • if it was a joke and I did’nt understood it, the guy who did the bad joke will answer me ‘you are to dumb (no matter the words he will use)’.
  • if it wasn’t one he will answer me the same.
  • If you take it as a joke and it was one he will be flattered and will go to another place to repeat the same joke to someone else.
  • If you take it as a joke and it wasn’t I hope something will cross his mind like ‘Did I said something stupid ?’ even if he does not recognize it.

That’s how I see the thing.

There is a tribe in Polynesia, wich I don’t remember the name, which always settle their conflict with tickles. We need a tickle button.

[deleted flamebait]

I would do quite well out there then as I’m not overly ticklish. Except on the feet and in some moods/when taken by surprise…

I merely suggested that April 13th, 1993 was a bad day. That was all.

Nothing to see here folks. Move along now.

I fucking hate cats. Useless creatures on earth.

Plus i’m allergic to them bastards aswell.

what are you doing on the internet?

:D