Don'T Make Extreme Changes

I hope you ignore certain ideas that i’m seeing in this forum. A tracker is a tracker. Works vertically, with no waveforms in sight, with patterns of 64 lines (or the ones you want).

I don’t want to be rude, even if i use Renoise for less than a month i’m into trackers for 19 or 20 years, and i think some changes people are asking can only have one response “try another software, like pro tools, works the way you like” - so trackers can have the best tracker ever the way it’s supposed to be.

Do i make sense or am i getting affraid of ideas i don’t even know what they mean? :D

And how is that supposed to be?
We can always recommend ;)

Don’t worry. Ideas are just ideas. No need to be afraid of them.

What’s so wrong with being able to see waveforms? O.o

I hope you can realise the irony in your words: you are telling the team to ignore certain suggestions, while at the same time imposing your own ideals for what a tracker should be.

The Renoise team is not stupid. They’re not just going to blindly implement every suggestion ever made here on the forums, and to even suggest that they might do that is probably a bit insulting. It suggests that you don’t have any faith in their intelligence or ability to make sensible decisions for the future of the application.

Renoise is created by trackers for trackers (and for anyone else who wants to get into tracking), and many of the awesome features that exist in Renoise today were based on suggestions that came from trackers like you and I. So if a suggestion is potentially useful and would improve the application, then it should be considered.

No matter what extra features might be added in the future to make certain musical functions easier, like piano roll, arranger, clips, audio tracks with waveform view, etc., you just have to remember: Renoise will always be a tracker at heart!

I’ve used trackers since I was a child, and have seen them grow in amazing ways. I want to continue to see them grow long into the future :)


Implementing new features does not mean current functionality will be disabled

And if you can learn anything from the features that have been added to Renoise over the years, it’s that most of them are OPTIONAL so that old-school tracker obsessives (yes, me too) don’t suffer a traumatic paradigm shift.

But occasionally a paradigm shift is what we all need to make us realise how inefficient our workflow was, or how stifled our creative practice was, before.

About two years ago, I finally quit being a tracker fundamentalist and a huge black cloud disappeared from over my head. Feels good! Roll with it.

you gotta give me a break, until a few weeks ago i was going through a kind of breakdown because of the end of Skale and no tracker in sight that could work for me and i was really pissed off because a lot of friends were saying “you gotta try ableton live” and i didn’t like it

so Renoise was like a dream come true and to me at the moment is perfect

just keep it simple

sorry if it looked rude to anyone’s ideas, not the intention of my post obviously, i even ended saying that probably i don’t understand a lot of ideas and may sound something that are not


i don’t know where´s the planet you live in but in my planet using a tracker is not cool and can make people laugh at it

my idea was kind of “let it be how it is” it’s not that clever or that ironic

i have to tell you that your answer is my favourite because you didn’t took me so serious


You’ll receive alot of heat from this community for requesting that Renoise stay as it is… as one of the things we very much enjoy is how active the devs are. If you really want to use Renoise as it currently is, and you don’t like new features that have been added, then simply don’t upgrade. They’re not going to force you to use a piano roll (even if they add one)… they’re not going to remove patterns… and they’re not going to turn it into fruity loops. It’s a tracker, it will always be a tracker. It just might end up being a tracker with sequencer features, but it will ALWAYS be a tracker.

I’m just rooting for it to become a tracker with better features than most sequencers.

while it works good as it works now and VERTICALLY i will shut the f*** up and never say anything like this again hehe

can you forgive my big mouth?


Guys, lets not be too serious here.
But then again, these discussions do happen frequently among the team members as well.
This is how it should be. Or must be. Renoise is so packed with features now that it’s hard to make new features that everyone will use. So there will always be quite a lot of discussion on how/if new things should be implanted. And even more what to prioritize next.

I think you are absolutely right. It’s nothing wrong with your concerns. We share them as well. There is a lot of tracker conservatism in the developer team as well.
So wild ideas will not just be thrown in without being thought through carefully.

And yes, some ideas can be quite complex or distant from what many trackers are used to.
So reading through new ideas that you do not really understand will often trigger those “why the h¤#%¤ do we need that feature in renoise, go use some other software”-thoughts.

So even if you was not that serious about your concerns for the future of renoise, it will always be a serious debate when actually new features will be made.
So I guess people are just reacting a bit to that.

In the Ideas&Suggestion forum everything is legal. Feel free to brainstorm about anything.
Even a horizontal pattern editor ;)

thanks for your reply i was feeling like an outcast

everything but an horizontal pattern editor!! :)

Why do you think Skale died?

If folks highly recommend you Ableton Live, i can understand they are laughing, but they probably still assume trackers are in an era where they don’t offer load of good options and are sample-based only.
Which in most cases is true, but if one boards the Renoise train and actually gives it a chance they will discover power that they did not expect to find in it.
It is not about what you can see, it is what you can do with it that you thought you couldn’t.

the team must find a compromise between what keeps current users happy and what attracts new users: every feature which can do this is a benefit for Renoise, because it will let it survive.

the simplest way, and also the most used, to find this compromise, is to make feature optionally hidden, like it is for the pattern matrix.

as vV already pointed out, Skale died for many reasons, but one of that is surely that its user base was not wide enough

The fact that lots of promised features never got implemented or were added in a half-assed solution or simply not working is an important part of this.
And just that people can accept this, i recon you Spike, have bared quite some annoyances and irritations with Skale throughout it’s evolution process, so i suspect when looking at it from that perspective, things look very promising for you even though you might feel intimidated which i as Impulse Tracker endorser had as well.
You don’t need to see the whole staircase to see where it ends, you know you will end up higher if you keep climbing each step.

indeed I have always been fascinated by how Skale users could cope with its enormous defects, while being extremely picky about what they found bad in Renoise; then, once I read on Skale forum something like “I hate Renoise: it’s a great app if you want to make… like… music lol”, and decided to give up trying to understand Skale users :rolleyes:

Writing a programm that fits my needs. I don’t want to use cubase, i hate pianorolls and I cannot play piano.

a bit ot but i was checking wikipedia for skale tracker (no such article) and came across that old quote.(=

it’s never late to change an opinion and i think now with Renoise it will be easier to prove that trackers are good as any other program, it depends only of who is using it

i don’t care about live or any other software, Renoise and Pro Tools are everything i need, and even Pro Tools i won’t use it so much as i did because of Renoise

well not all Skale users had the same feelings about Renoise

i didn’t knew it before, it took me 1 day to change from Skale to Renoise as soon as i knew it

lol @ the ratings of the first post… the forum has decided: please do make extreme changes!


they don’t laugh literally but it’s always a fun thing for people that never saw Renoise to think about Skale or FT2 as real software to make music this days, i guess Renoise will make trackers look different as it is really professional and to us here a better deal than any other

and let’s clarify this, i’m not against piano roll and a lot of other ideas and obviously i’m not against evolution, i just think that when you start proposing horizontal playing, end of patterns and some other extreme measures… well you tell me, where’s the tracker there? there are other software that do that, why anyone would want to make a tracker look like Reason or Logic or Pro Tools?

that’s why i said: a tracker is a tracker

don’t understand why i offend anyone :)

maybe because we all know the influence that a new guy in this forum has in their decisions… i’m an opinion maker! beware!