Guys, lets not be too serious here.
But then again, these discussions do happen frequently among the team members as well.
This is how it should be. Or must be. Renoise is so packed with features now that it’s hard to make new features that everyone will use. So there will always be quite a lot of discussion on how/if new things should be implanted. And even more what to prioritize next.
I think you are absolutely right. It’s nothing wrong with your concerns. We share them as well. There is a lot of tracker conservatism in the developer team as well.
So wild ideas will not just be thrown in without being thought through carefully.
And yes, some ideas can be quite complex or distant from what many trackers are used to.
So reading through new ideas that you do not really understand will often trigger those “why the h¤#%¤ do we need that feature in renoise, go use some other software”-thoughts.
So even if you was not that serious about your concerns for the future of renoise, it will always be a serious debate when actually new features will be made.
So I guess people are just reacting a bit to that.
In the Ideas&Suggestion forum everything is legal. Feel free to brainstorm about anything.
Even a horizontal pattern editor
If folks highly recommend you Ableton Live, i can understand they are laughing, but they probably still assume trackers are in an era where they don’t offer load of good options and are sample-based only.
Which in most cases is true, but if one boards the Renoise train and actually gives it a chance they will discover power that they did not expect to find in it.
It is not about what you can see, it is what you can do with it that you thought you couldn’t.
the team must find a compromise between what keeps current users happy and what attracts new users: every feature which can do this is a benefit for Renoise, because it will let it survive.
the simplest way, and also the most used, to find this compromise, is to make feature optionally hidden, like it is for the pattern matrix.
as vV already pointed out, Skale died for many reasons, but one of that is surely that its user base was not wide enough
The fact that lots of promised features never got implemented or were added in a half-assed solution or simply not working is an important part of this.
And just that people can accept this, i recon you Spike, have bared quite some annoyances and irritations with Skale throughout it’s evolution process, so i suspect when looking at it from that perspective, things look very promising for you even though you might feel intimidated which i as Impulse Tracker endorser had as well.
You don’t need to see the whole staircase to see where it ends, you know you will end up higher if you keep climbing each step.
indeed I have always been fascinated by how Skale users could cope with its enormous defects, while being extremely picky about what they found bad in Renoise; then, once I read on Skale forum something like “I hate Renoise: it’s a great app if you want to make… like… music lol”, and decided to give up trying to understand Skale users
it’s never late to change an opinion and i think now with Renoise it will be easier to prove that trackers are good as any other program, it depends only of who is using it
i don’t care about live or any other software, Renoise and Pro Tools are everything i need, and even Pro Tools i won’t use it so much as i did because of Renoise
they don’t laugh literally but it’s always a fun thing for people that never saw Renoise to think about Skale or FT2 as real software to make music this days, i guess Renoise will make trackers look different as it is really professional and to us here a better deal than any other
and let’s clarify this, i’m not against piano roll and a lot of other ideas and obviously i’m not against evolution, i just think that when you start proposing horizontal playing, end of patterns and some other extreme measures… well you tell me, where’s the tracker there? there are other software that do that, why anyone would want to make a tracker look like Reason or Logic or Pro Tools?
that’s why i said: a tracker is a tracker
don’t understand why i offend anyone
maybe because we all know the influence that a new guy in this forum has in their decisions… i’m an opinion maker! beware!
Who on earth proposed that we get rid of the vertical paradigm, or remove patterns entirely? And where did you get the idea that the devs were actually considering this?
Well I personally feel we should be able to play multiple patterns at the same time… the “clip” paradigm pleases me greatly (it would please me more if it was multi-track)… but I don’t think we should do away with patterns. I think we should just change how patterns operate.
How is it a disaster if a feature that you opt not to enable is introduced to a piece of software?
It’s like getting angry because your phone gets a software upgrade that adds VPN support when you don’t use VPN; don’t want to use VPN; don’t even know or care what VPN is, goddamnit. Why the hell did they add VPN? It’s not a bloody phone any more! This is a disaster! They had it just right, back when you could only connect to standard wireless LANs or 3G networks, but then they went and RUINED it by adding VPN! You might never even see the VPN option hidden away in the menu system, but deep down in your heart, you know it’s there and it makes you so ANGRY!
Gah! Now I’M angry too! I’m going to go outside and yell at my car because I heard that the next update to the Yaris model will have cup-holders - cars never used to need cup-holders, not in the good old days when people made proper cars that adhered to the traditional principles of automobilosity. Now the paradigm has changed because the Yaris user community demanded cup-holders and the designers expect me to drive my car with a can of Pepsi stored conveniently within reach! How can I drive properly now? Even though the cup-holder will be folded away and out of sight, and even though THEY HAVEN’T EVEN ADDED THEM YET, and even though I’ll still have my old, satisfactory, cup-holderless, 2000-model Yaris with which I’m perfectly happy [etc. etc. etc.]
Anyway, isn’t it nice that you can download older versions of Renoise from the Backstage area? So you need never worry about what the future holds And I don’t mean you ill; I just have this compulsion to belabour tenuous analogies.
And I don’t mean you ill; I just have this compulsion to belabour tenuous analogies.