Duplex:Behringer Motor 61 support

Renoise Tools
#1

Hi guys, i’m a renoise fan for years now. Today I bought the Behringer Motor 61, in the hope I could get it to work with renoise. I think its an amazing keyboard for Renoise.

Unfortunately, it seems that 2-way control is not possible without the duplex tool (REALLY hope this will be improved in the next versions of renoise, seems to me that a lot of users are having problems with this specific issue).

I have been considering changing DAW but renoise is just so integrated in my way of thinking and producing that I never want to leave it behind.

One problem: to me, the duplex software is too much of a world to start learning, not accessible, too complex, would take years for me to completely understand it. (with all respect for the coders)

I do not have the time, nor the intention to learn this tool. What to do? Hope that a duplex preset will come out for this MIDI keyboard? Or accept a non-fully-working (one-way) Midi keyboard?

Warm regards!

#2

What to do? Hope that a duplex preset will come out for this MIDI keyboard? Or accept a non-fully-working (one-way) Midi keyboard?

I’m on my way to a brief holiday tomorrow but when I come back I can put together a configuration for it - should get you started.

#3

Thank you so much Danoise :w00t:, enjoy your holiday to the fullest :slight_smile: Talk to you after your return!

#4

I did enjoy it, thankyou B)

Now, regarding this controller - I took a quick look at the Behringer web site. Seems that the only way (?) to achieve bi-directional communication is to enable the MC (mackie control) mode.
Otherwise, it would seem that the controller just sends MIDI but does not respond to incoming messages.

Also, it’s only_part_of the controller which is bi-directional. A bit confusing perhaps, so here is an illustration from one of their manuals:
behringer-motor-61.gif?raw=1

Now … it so happens that Duplex already has support for the standard MC protocol. So you should be able to test whether the parts outlined ingreen are actually working.
To do this, launch the Duplex > Mackie Control > Mixer and Transport (and don’t forget to set the input/output MIDI ports to the_second_ pair offered by the Motor 61).

With a bit of luck, you should now be able to run a “bidirectional mixer” - ?

Once this is confirmed to be working we can perhaps finetune things a bit more.

#5

Hi! I tested the setup with the Macky Control setup in duplex. Now I can control the motorized faders in Renoise which I couldn’t achieve before! But for some reason t is still one-directional, when I move the faders on the midi keyboard, the renoise mixer faders are not responding (the piano keys however are working). Any suggestions?

#6

Thanks. I just checked, and this was in fact reported by another user a year ago. Somehow it faded out of my memory but the details are all here

Github: https://github.com/renoise/xrnx/issues/50

So I will fix this. In the meantime you might have better luck with the pre 0.92 version - look here for archived releases :smiley:

#7

Thank Danoise, I can hereby confirm that the automated faders of the Motor 61 are completely functional (bidirectional) using Mackie Control, running Duplex 0.99.1 & Renoise 3.0. :dribble:This is REALLY awesome, controling Renoise on my Midi-keyboard and vice-versa, ohyeah!! :walkman:I’m not sure yet if I will ‘downgrade’ to 3.0, but I will wait in patience for the next duplex update. Thanks for the first-class support, you guys are the best. renoise fan for life

#8

Thank Danoise, I can hereby confirm that the automated faders of the Motor 61 are completely functional (bidirectional) using Mackie Control, running Duplex 0.99.1 & Renoise 3.0. :dribble:This is REALLY awesome, controling Renoise on my Midi-keyboard and vice-versa, ohyeah!! :walkman:I’m not sure yet if I will ‘downgrade’ to 3.0, but I will wait in patience for the next duplex update.

Thanks for the kind words! For what it’s worth, I believe you can run that version of Duplex on 3.1 as well, if you manually modify the manifest.xml file so it states ApiVersion 5instead of 4. At least, it should work for what you’re doing with it :slight_smile:

#9

After experimenting a bit with it, I think still some finetuning is needed for this controller, but i’m happy for now that It will work in the future.

For example the rotary knobs are assignable, but are not reacting to the ‘track selector’ well. (for example, rotary knobs 1-8 are working fine), but when going to track 9, the knobs are still operating as 1-8 (but the light on the midi keyboard for 17-24 is activated once going to 9). Also, if I record changes in the faders, these changes are recorded in the pattern, but no changes are actually happening while playing the pattern.

I will keep my eyes on future updates for sure, please let me know if I can help in any way with testing configurations for the motor 61. Warm regards!

#10

For example the rotary knobs are assignable, but are not reacting to the ‘track selector’ well. (for example, rotary knobs 1-8 are working fine), but when going to track 9, the knobs are still operating as 1-8 (but the light on the midi keyboard for 17-24 is activated once going to 9). Also, if I record changes in the faders, these changes are recorded in the pattern, but no changes are actually happening while playing the pattern.

When you mention rotary knobs, are you referring to the virtual “Mackie Control” surface within the Duplex UI (the topmost row)? I guess not, since these knobs are unassigned by default.

I don’t really know how it’s translated to your hardware and I couldn’t find a MIDI implementation chart in the Behringer manuals, so the only common reference we have is that which is on-screen, in Renoise.

Speaking of recording, whether the Mixer application records automation or notis entirely optional btw. You need to enable this yourself (Duplex Settings > Mixer > Automation Rec.).

If something goes to the pattern, this is perhaps data that your controller is sending which is picked up by the “normal” MIDI Ports in Renoise (Duplex works independantly of those ports, defines it’s own inputs).

So you need to ensure that the second MIDI port (the one sending Mackie Protocol messages) is not enabled in Renoise preferences > MIDI.

#11

Ahhh thanks Danoise for clarifying all these things, as I said in the beginning it is a complete new world for me and I am grateful for your patience and help :slight_smile:

And indeed, when disabling the MIDI port in Renoise, the recording automation works perfectly.

I really like the working motorized faders on the keyboard. It speeds up the produce stage significantly!

However, the motorized faders only work for me when operating in Mackie-mode.

Unfortunately the motor61 is designed and programmed by behringer to have different functions in mackie mode, this is not user-edible (i contacted them).

For this reason the rotary encoders for example in MC-mode, are limited to 8 channels (instead of 32 in MIDI-mode), 8 is not really enough for my preferences.

I still haven’t succeeded in making the motorized faders work in MIDI-mode.

Achieving this will solve everything and will make the keyboard completely functional and user-assignable.

Do you think this is possible in Renoise?

Warm regards.

#12

Like I stated above, the controller does not receive messages in MIDI mode. So no need to try…it’s not a big deal though as 8 channels should be enough.

FYI: The 8 channels is how the mackie protocol works. I believe 9 is reserved for the master track.
But this limitation doesn’t necessarily affect how you can use it in renoise, when running through duplex - it ‘knows’ all tracks, their levels etc. and can update knobs and faders accordingly.

I hope to take a good look at the issue in the coming weeks. It has been lurking for far too long!

#13

Looking forward to the next version of Duplex, Danoise! Thanks for all the help so far!