Help Using A Hardware X/y Controller With The New X/y Device

I need some help please! I use a Korg M3 as my midi controller which has a hardware kaoss (x/y) pad built in which is used in real time to modulate and tweek sounds on the M3 synth.

Renoise has always recorded the x/y data into the pattern editor, but it does not send the incoming x/y data back to the synth in real time while I am playing the notes on the M3 keyboard. This means that I cannot hear the result of the x/y movements that I am making while I am actually playing the notes. After recording the x/y data into the pattern editor I can then hear what I did upon playback. This is a problem though because I cannot use the x/y pad in the way it was meant to be used - real time modulation of the sounds.

There is a simple workaround. I can just turn Local Control on in the synth. The problem with this is that with local control on both Renoise and the M3 are triggering notes. This causes a flange effect because 2 notes are being played simultaneously for each keypress. (One by Renoise, one locally by the M3).

This is not a world ending problem, but I’m wondering with all this new midi routing stuff in 2.5 if I can now properly set this up? In case the info is needed, I believe the X is sent on midi channel 118 and Y on 119. I messed around with the x/y device, and also with the hydra device and the keytracker. In complete honestly I have no clue what I’m doing.

Help would be much appreciated!

You are performing some Midi feedback trick but that all goes on the same MIDI channel, so the double sound triggering is a result of that.

Have you tried fumbling with the MIDI Control Device to return specific controller messages (using channel 118 and 119) back to your Korg?

I’ve made some progress on this but it doesn’t work propertly. If I map channel 118 to the input of a hydra device and 119 to a seperate hydra device I can then link them to a midi control device to send the notes back out. (I can also chain a X/Y device in the middle so I can see my real word x/y pad movements being recreated by the Renoise x/y device.

However, there is a problem. I think it has soemthing to do with timing resoluiton or how fast Renoise will take in and return midi data. Let me explain:

With local control on the synth, when I tweek sounds with the x/y pad it creates a very fluid sound - like a filter “whoosh” for example. When I disable local control and use my above input chain the sound is very steppy. This is my observation:

  1. Renoise fluidly sees my incoming midi data. When I move my finger across the x/y pad the movements in the GUI seem to be accurately reproduced. I can tell because I’ve chained the hydra device into the x/y pad and the cursor in the GUI scrolls smoothly as I move my finger around my hardware x/y pad.

  2. Renoise does not fluidly send the information back to the synth. The sound triggered is very “steppy”. Using my above dsp chain, instead of a “whoosh” sound as I move my finger across the x/y pad, it’s more of a “o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o” sound.

  3. I can also control the x/y pad of the synth from within renoise by clicking on the Renoise x/y device (which is mapped to the midi control device) and use the mouse to move the cursor. If I do this it is again a very smooth “woooosh” sound that is created.

I think what this means is that renoise doesn’t rebroadcast the incoming midi data back to the synth quickly enough. Sure, it sees the incoming midi data very quickly, and the x/y movements are fluid on the gui, but the actual midi data being returned to the synth are almost as if they are in ticks or steps or something. Perhaps taktic or someone can comment on this? If I could figure out how to record the screen and audio at the same time this would be clarified in a 3 second video.

Local control = smooth.

Using the mouse to control the Renoise x/y device -> midi control device -> synth = smooth.

Synth -> hydra -> x/y device -> midi control -> synth = very steppy. It’s as if renoise doesn’t listen and rebroadcast the midi notes quickly enough.

Sorry for the very long and repetitive description. It’s hard to describe this issue. Hopefully someone can help.

additional note

The only thing I can think of adding is I wonder if I’m creating some kind of x/y movement feedback loop.

hardware x/y movement

-> Renoise sees it

-> Renoise sends it back out

-> synth makes x/y movement adjustment

-> renoise see’s this adjustment … loop?

I don’t know enough of how this works, but perhaps that is what is happening…