slooooow curve there.
I’m in the same boat trying to learn more, every time you go to use the mouse try to look for the key command for it. It is slow learning but try to use them when you’re actually making a tune, it will stick more that way. There’s also an anki deck on the forum somewhere, I haven’t started with it yet but will be soon.
yeah, so trying to reduce a pattern thats 64 beats down to 32… would like to select all, and halve that selection with a shortcut,
so i search the shortcuts for “move selection” or anything that halves or doubles a selection, and not finding anything.
is there a function to “split pattern” in two? searched the forum and no results for split pattern.
getting an idea from your head to a track is lightning fast, a speed you just can’t achieve with a piano roll. It has it’s weaknesses, but this is why people who like trackers like trackers.
Having done many all gear/any DAW compos, seeing what others have done with their programs, seeing a lot of other tracker modules that were from OHCs, and using FL, Renoise, and modplug myself, I have to disagree. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that trackers are actually faster than all piano roll software. This has been a thought in tracker mythology for a long time but I don’t think it’s substantiated, I think that danoise’s theory is closer to the truth, it’s why Renoise is very popular for genres like breakcore in which microscopic editing is needed, and isn’t that popular for composers that are up against deadlines constantly. If you want to put every beat of your song under the magnifying glass, Renoise might be the best thing out there. If you want to finish something as fast as possible, it’s probably FL or Ableton
I do think there’s something to be said for the feel of using keys vs using a mouse though. It isn’t necessarily faster, but it seems to lead me in different directions also. It’s kind of the middle ground between playing something and sequencing
yeah, so trying to reduce a pattern thats 64 beats down to 32… would like to select all, and halve that selection with a shortcut,
so i search the shortcuts for “move selection” or anything that halves or doubles a selection, and not finding anything.
is there a function to “split pattern” in two? searched the forum and no results for split pattern.
Open the advanced editor, little expand button on the right of the pattern editor. You can just choose whole song and click shrink if you’re just lowering the lpb. If you’re only splitting the pattern, don’t know of a way, but there may be a stray script or tool that can do it.
it would be cool if you could split a whole pattern in the pattern matrix, so the first half would be a pattern, and the second half would be a pattern,
it would be cool if you could split a whole pattern in the pattern matrix, so the first half would be a pattern, and the second half would be a pattern,
There is a tool that does that
http://www.renoise.com/tools/pattern-split-plus
However, you will need to manuallyupgrade the tool, it was created for Renoise 2.6, but I checked and it works for 3.0 as well
Instructions on how to upgrade a tool:
https://forum.renoise.com/t/lua-api-changes-for-2-8-how-to-upgrade-tools/34432
I had a sudden insight:
I don’t really compose in renoise , and I doubt that the original poster really should (although it’s possible to do it with tools such as noodletrap).
What do I mean by this?
I think, based on the discussion in this thread, that we are confusing two different stages: creation , and representation.
Creation is where you come up with musical ideas. What you really want is a very low friction way of approximating what you’re thinking, musically, but the details of representation are mostly irrelevant.
Representation is how you actually pin down what you’ve come up with, and make it real.
Let’s take as an example an aria I wrote recently. The process is different, to a point, because my final product was sheet music, not a recording, but the principles still apply.
I did not start out with blank staves and start scribbling lines. Instead, I sang some ideas to myself, and to flesh them out I picked up a guitar and strummed chords. (I’m a fair guitarist, so it was low friction for me. Other people might prefer to set up an instrument in Renoise and use a MIDI keyboard to noodle things out. Your mileage may vary, but the principle remains the same.) Only after I’d hammered out a meaningful series of tones did I start writing actual musical notation. Composition first, then representation. However once I had written my ideas down I could go back over them and look for things I could update and improve - after which I would improve the representation.
I think that the same thing applies with any DAW, and Renoise in particular. Renoise is not a good tool for just coming up with ideas. It forces you to get too detailed, too early. Come up with ideas first, and then use Renoise to present those ideas. Renoise will then play it for you and if you want to use that and harmonise with Renoise while deciding what your bassline, or top, or chord progression or whatever should be, then Renoise will be a reliable partner, telling you what you did before.
Finally, once you have all your tracks laid down, Renoise will let you tweak and balance and add effects and go nuts.
Maybe this helps? It’s a view on the workflow which might be relevant.
I had a sudden insight:
I don’t really compose in renoise , and I doubt that the original poster really should (although it’s possible to do it with tools such as noodletrap).
What do I mean by this?
I think, based on the discussion in this thread, that we are confusing two different stages: creation , and representation.
Creation is where you come up with musical ideas. What you really want is a very low friction way of approximating what you’re thinking, musically, but the details of representation are mostly irrelevant.
Representation is how you actually pin down what you’ve come up with, and make it real.
Let’s take as an example an aria I wrote recently. The process is different, to a point, because my final product was sheet music, not a recording, but the principles still apply.
I did not start out with blank staves and start scribbling lines. Instead, I sang some ideas to myself, and to flesh them out I picked up a guitar and strummed chords. (I’m a fair guitarist, so it was low friction for me. Other people might prefer to set up an instrument in Renoise and use a MIDI keyboard to noodle things out. Your mileage may vary, but the principle remains the same.) Only after I’d hammered out a meaningful series of tones did I start writing actual musical notation. Composition first, then representation. However once I had written my ideas down I could go back over them and look for things I could update and improve - after which I would improve the representation.
I think that the same thing applies with any DAW, and Renoise in particular. Renoise is not a good tool for just coming up with ideas. It forces you to get too detailed, too early. Come up with ideas first, and then use Renoise to present those ideas. Renoise will then play it for you and if you want to use that and harmonise with Renoise while deciding what your bassline, or top, or chord progression or whatever should be, then Renoise will be a reliable partner, telling you what you did before.
Finally, once you have all your tracks laid down, Renoise will let you tweak and balance and add effects and go nuts.
Maybe this helps? It’s a view on the workflow which might be relevant.
Agree with most of it, but there are certainly DAWs where composition and representation merge nicely. All DAWs which allow you to “jam” and play around with arrangements (e.g. Live).
Most people are drawn to Renoise because people tell them that trackers are “fast” in getting you from your ideas (composition) to their realisation (representation), but I have yet to see someone putting together a track (with melodies and chords, not C-4 Techno!) faster in Renoise than in another DAW 
Agree with most of it, but there are certainly DAWs where composition and representation merge nicely. All DAWs which allow you to “jam” and play around with arrangements (e.g. Live).
Most people are drawn to Renoise because people tell them that trackers are “fast” in getting you from your ideas (composition) to their realisation (representation), but I have yet to see someone putting together a track (with melodies and chords, not C-4 Techno!) faster in Renoise than in another DAW
It’s possible I’ve been doing it badly in other interfaces, but trackers have always been fast for me, once I’ve decided what I want. Type in the notes, done. Certainly faster than sheet music, even in electronic form. I actually find trackers faster than pianoroll, because I keep clicking the wrong note and then having to go back and undo what I did, and fiddling with note length in pianoroll … well, it hasn’t been good.
And you can jam around in renoise, as I said. Go to the sample window, set up a sound or instrument, bang away on your MIDI keyboard. And noodletrap lets you save what you’ve been doing, so it’s even better. I am just faster at expressing myself on a guitar, so that’s what I do. If I were a pianist, I’d have a massive USB keyboard in front of me and do my composing straight in Renoise, using simple sine waves. It just isn’t part of the workflow at which Renoise is particularly efficient, that’s all. If the original poster was trying to compose by guessing and typing in notes, that’s probably not an efficient workflow - that’s what I was trying to point out.
It’s possible I’ve been doing it badly in other interfaces, but trackers have always been fast for me, once I’ve decided what I want. Type in the notes, done. Certainly faster than sheet music, even in electronic form. I actually find trackers faster than pianoroll, because I keep clicking the wrong note and then having to go back and undo what I did, and fiddling with note length in pianoroll … well, it hasn’t been good.
Don’t know how it works with other software so much but FL’s piano roll is basically like Renoise, when the song isn’t playing drawing a note in the piano roll will cause the instrument to play that note so you can just hold the mouse button and drag it around until you hear the pitch you were looking for. I actually run into this problem more in Renoise if I forget to set edit step back to 0. It’d be cool if there was something like a pause step key so you could just hold it until you’re done auditioning different notes and then it would jump on release. I think the bigger downside to sequencing in a piano roll is note length, it’s much more intuitive to type in a note and it plays indefinitely until you place another note or note off
I am just faster at expressing myself on a guitar, so that’s what I do. If I were a pianist, I’d have a massive USB keyboard in front of me and do my composing straight in Renoise, using simple sine waves. It just isn’t part of the workflow at which Renoise is particularly efficient, that’s all. If the original poster was trying to compose by guessing and typing in notes, that’s probably not an efficient workflow - that’s what I was trying to point out.
I think I work similarly, just that I grab one of my kalimbas/ka r imbas/mbiras (they’re all in different keys, which is my excuse to have eight of them currently), come up with something that sounds interesting, then type in the notes in Renoise. I don’t need more than two and a half octaves usually, so this helps. Occasionally, I use also an ukulele for making noise, too (easier for chords, though I struggle with string instruments). I sometimes ponder the idea of learning (musical) keyboard or piano playing, but I don’t know. I find them so bulky and I can’t easily walk around with a keyboard or sit in a corner/etc. I’ve noticed that my musical creativity seems to be somehow linked to mobility and movement. If I sit in the same place, I find it much harder to come up with ideas, and I also can’t do it just in my head like some folks can (I need an instrument).
Reading this thread, the conclusion is pretty much that “it depends”. I get results faster in Renoise + non-keyboard acoustic instrument than I do with a piano roll based DAW (I’ve recently fallen in love with Tracktion 5, but that’s mostly for audio recording, especially because of how it handles recording multiple takes and comping), but this may be different for people who click in all notes, or who are pianists/keyboarders. Actually, I just realized that because my instruments don’t always (or usually) have strict or identical layouts, I’m not “thinking” in a piano layout at all, but in notes, by name and number. So seeing the text label C4 or G#5 in a grid is more meaningful to me than a visual representation based on a piano keyboard (yes, many piano rolls can display the text labels, too, but the notes themselves are still arranged in a linear piano layout). Additionally, kalimba/etc. tabs are vertical, too, precisely like trackers. (Looks like this.)
So anyway, I don’t think it can be generalized that method A is always faster or better than method B, or vice versa. It just depends on what you’re used to and how you work/think.
A very very interesting thread. Very inspirational. I’ve been always very interested in how different music-making software interfaces influence on the actual composition. I think it’s a whole field worth of even academic/scientific research.
I think I work similarly, just that I grab one of my kalimbas/ka r imbas/mbiras (they’re all in different keys, which is my excuse to have eight of them currently), come up with something that sounds interesting, then type in the notes in Renoise…
I just open Renoise, find an interesting sounding instrument and use the qwerty keyboard. Add some effects, sketch a melody, move things around and then iterate and soon enough things start to evolve in more macro structure.
I find the comment that renoise forces you to focus on compositional details quite close to the (subjective) truth. I also think that this forces you to think of the macro structure in your head (that’s why I really really hate “pattern sequence matrix” - as it forces you, well me, to stop imagining the structure, and stop hearing the the macro structure, and it’s a visualisation with blocks that I move around and mute or copy).
Don’t know how it works with other software so much but FL’s piano roll is basically like Renoise, when the song isn’t playing drawing a note in the piano roll will cause the instrument to play that note so you can just hold the mouse button and drag it around until you hear the pitch you were looking for. I actually run into this problem more in Renoise if I forget to set edit step back to 0. It’d be cool if there was something like a pause step key so you could just hold it until you’re done auditioning different notes and then it would jump on release. I think the bigger downside to sequencing in a piano roll is note length, it’s much more intuitive to type in a note and it plays indefinitely until you place another note or note off
Ctrl-0, Ctrl-1 will change the edit step. Also you can hit ESC to disable editing and play around on keyboard playing the instruments until happy, hit ESC and punch it in. Keyboard-centrism of Renoise is awesome.
It’s possible I’ve been doing it badly in other interfaces, but trackers have always been fast for me, once I’ve decided what I want. Type in the notes, done. Certainly faster than sheet music, even in electronic form. I actually find trackers faster than pianoroll, because I keep clicking the wrong note and then having to go back and undo what I did, and fiddling with note length in pianoroll … well, it hasn’t been good.
And you can jam around in renoise, as I said. Go to the sample window, set up a sound or instrument, bang away on your MIDI keyboard. And noodletrap lets you save what you’ve been doing, so it’s even better. I am just faster at expressing myself on a guitar, so that’s what I do. If I were a pianist, I’d have a massive USB keyboard in front of me and do my composing straight in Renoise, using simple sine waves. It just isn’t part of the workflow at which Renoise is particularly efficient, that’s all. If the original poster was trying to compose by guessing and typing in notes, that’s probably not an efficient workflow - that’s what I was trying to point out.
If I work with chords, then transposing or copying and moving them is much easier on a piano roll, compared to the tracker interface. Selecting many notes and editing them together makes things very comfortable I think.
Ctrl-0, Ctrl-1 will change the edit step. Also you can hit ESC to disable editing and play around on keyboard playing the instruments until happy, hit ESC and punch it in. Keyboard-centrism of Renoise is awesome.
Aware of this, really not what I was talking about as disabling the edit step or record entirely and then re-enabling it is an extra step. What I’m not aware of, maybe missing something important here but…idk why there are two note off keys, so it would be cool if you could just hold caps while auditioning notes and releasing it would trigger the step jump
is there a way to cause a note event to be in “trigger mode” rather than in “sustain mode”?
what i mean is, sometimes when i draw a note, i want it to be a trigger, not hold the sustain indefinitely.
for instance, a drum sample might not need to be held for infinity. with a ‘trigger mode’, the ADSR of a synth would do its thing with its own release rather than needing to program in note stops.
reason i write this is because when i move patterns, sometimes i get the note hanging problem cause i havent managed to put in the end note, etc.
reason i write this is because when i move patterns, sometimes i get the note hanging problem cause i havent managed to put in the end note, etc.
You can’t make a sustained note (e.g. a string) stop automagically at pattern boundaries, no.
Personally, when making chord sequences that anyway will get triggered in the next pattern I tend to add a track-wide note off (CTRL/CMD + Caps lock) near the end of the pattern.
What you can do with the instrument, is to assign the sample as a one-shot (sample properties). This will cause it to play through the duration of the sample data, ignoring loop points in the sample and note-offs in the pattern. This is great for drums, and I guess it could be used for shorter sustained sounds too?
It’s possible I’ve been doing it badly in other interfaces, but trackers have always been fast for me, once I’ve decided what I want. Type in the notes, done. Certainly faster than sheet music, even in electronic form. I actually find trackers faster than pianoroll, because I keep clicking the wrong note and then having to go back and undo what I did, and fiddling with note length in pianoroll … well, it hasn’t been good.
And you can jam around in renoise, as I said. Go to the sample window, set up a sound or instrument, bang away on your MIDI keyboard. And noodletrap lets you save what you’ve been doing, so it’s even better. I am just faster at expressing myself on a guitar, so that’s what I do. If I were a pianist, I’d have a massive USB keyboard in front of me and do my composing straight in Renoise, using simple sine waves. It just isn’t part of the workflow at which Renoise is particularly efficient, that’s all. If the original poster was trying to compose by guessing and typing in notes, that’s probably not an efficient workflow - that’s what I was trying to point out.
This post made me remember how much I miss having my 88 key controller in front of me. Poor thing died on me several months back, very sad. I’ve been living paycheck to paycheck for a while in prep for a move, and I’m moved now, so I’m broke again, but I did finally manage to get a second job that was willing to work around my other job’s hours so combined I have full time work now, which means I should be able to buy a new one soon. But not next paycheck, rent is due then… but in like, a month I can probably do it.
If I work with chords, then transposing or copying and moving them is much easier on a piano roll, compared to the tracker interface. Selecting many notes and editing them together makes things very comfortable I think.
Working with polyphonic instruments in general is kind of a pain in trackers. Just, record some 2 handed piano, just a short simple sequence. Now try to make sense of the pattern you have created. Impossible.
ANYWAY,
is there a way to play a sample using an ADSR instead of the note off command to dictate when the release portion will come? like a drum trigger mode in the sampler? couldnt there be one button that ignores the noteoff function and treats a sample as though it were being triggered and not sustained?
that could easily be a button in the sampler dialogue somewhere.
is there a way to play a sample using an ADSR instead of the note off command to dictate when the release portion will come? like a drum trigger mode in the sampler? couldnt there be one button that ignores the noteoff function and treats a sample as though it were being triggered and not sustained?
that could easily be a button in the sampler dialogue somewhere.
If I understand what you mean, I just wouldn’t use the ADSR function. I’d use some of the other functions in combination to provide a release profile.
couldnt there be one button that ignores the noteoff function and treats a sample as though it were being triggered and not sustained?
that could easily be a button in the sampler dialogue somewhere.
If you are looking for something that completely ignores the note-off -this would be the one-shot trigger
It’s specified for each individual sample in the instrument and you can still add your own envelopes (sustain/loop will be ignored)