I enjoyed several aspects of the writing on the page you linked. However, several other aspects are simply from a skewed perception in my opinion.
We are entering an age of skeptism, science is the new religion.
Humans are now (although have been since the renaissance, but more so due to rise in robotics and AI) questioning our own psychology…
You have no reason to feel attacked if this is not how you think though, it’s just unfortunate that they share the same beliefs as you…
In regards to what you said “I’ve put little thought into creationism”…that seems to me, to bring up what most people think of religion…it’s an escape, an easy answer.
You only need to delve lightly into psychology to realise that what we do, the actions we make, are not controlled by a soul or our greater being, its just the brain you got (not given). It’s simply a machine that picks up traits and build upon itself and reacts in a specific way to you. There is no control over it, every choice you make is based in it.
Therefore, if this thing is developed and evolved externally, then there is no fault in any bad thing anyone does. The person was just unfortunately (speaking negatively) abused as a child, or bullied, given insecurities. This is a generalised stereotype, there are infinite amounts of variables…
Its a fact that no one would want to become a murderer or worse if given the choice earlier on, those people had no control over what they did, the same way you or i have no control in what we do and the way we become.
This is creating quite a problem in courts recently as its becoming easier for these people to plead insanity.
But what about God’s court?
oooOOOOoooo
I gathered as I was reading it, Satre was making conclusions based on a judgemental perception, in that each time he tries to breach the barrier he is coming into contact with, his judgements lead him away.
Science is not a belief. I do believe in God, and I do not share the same beliefs in God or religion with these people, who are adamently being ridiculed for misinterpretation. Instead of being taught the right way of thinking they are being attacked, which is leading them to Fortify themselves.
I used to let myself get annoyed about this kind of thing. Now, however, my attitude has softened a little. Like hektic said, I don’t beleive that fundamentalist christian’s/young earth creationists represent religion as a whole very well at all, and only a small fraction of angry or outspoken fundamentalists are represented in the vid- which I still find quite funny BTW.
I myself am an atheist, but don’t push my views on others for two main reasons:
- Generally, for the amount of effort invested both sides are going to end up in exactly the same position, just more annoyed.
- Even if either of you were to end up agreeing with the other it wouldn’t make a massive difference: In most of the discussions I’ve been in, both sides would end up being, overall, the same moderate, friendly and intelligent individuals they were to begin with.
That said, there will always be a few people who are so convinced they are right that they will end up being perceived as representatives of their “side”. The arguments that arise typically end up further polarizing opinions and disagreements are perceived as attacks and then become attacks etc… fuel to the fire.
I read somewhere the other day that 58% of europeans interviewed in a survey beleived that tomatoes contain no DNA and would like to keep it that way. I was taken aback at first, but then was less surprised when I considered my education and the effect it’s had. I could only confidently say that tomatoes did contain DNA by the age of 14/15 and most of my classmates probably couldn’t: they weren’t as interested in science as me… There’s nothing wrong with that; most of these people live happy lives completely oblivious to this one trivial detail.
Once in college I found myself amongst 300 classmates who could confidently say that tomatoes contain DNA; afew of us would go on to purify DNA from various organisms; actually SEE it. I got used to that as being the norm; so used to it that I was shocked that someone could not KNOW this. That 58% could potentially decide to agree with “Darwinists” or “creationists” just on the word of someone who sounded like they knew what they were talking about, but I imagine most of them are somewhere in the middle, and we won’t hear much from them, unfortunately.
I’m an atheist and I’m proud 
I’m also glad that I live in one of the most secularized countries in the world, where people understand that it is not ok to foist religion upon other people.
And btw, science is not the new religion, real science is based on empirical experiments and has absolutely nothing to do with religious belief. Friends of science believe in what they see, not in what they feel. Feelings are subjective while empirical experiments are objective… It is sometimes hard for fanatics to deal with this facts so they start to call things science that have absolutely nothing to do with science… “Creation science” and “intelligent design” are good example of such idiocy.
If you believe in a god it is fine for me as long as you keep your god for yourself and do not try to preach your believes to others, cause your god is just believes, not facts, so please keep it to yourself till you can prove the opposite. If you with empirical experiments can prove to me that god exists, even I am willing to believe in your god, but until then I do not need no god cause then he is to me completely meaningless.
Sascha Konietzko of KMFDM put it all down pretty well: “I don’t need no God, I make my own f**king destiny” 
Moss, I’m fairly certain that what you wrote could be considered an attack. Because you devalued my choice by likening it an easy answer, and then told me that that “You only need to delive lightly into psychology to realise that…” making it sound like I haven’t put effort or thought into my beliefs.
I think a mistake that is made on both sides of the fence (both religions talking about other religions, religious talking about non-religous, and non-religous people talking about religious people) is that people speak in absolutes, about things that no one can really know. You just did it, in a way that chastised me for my beliefs. Don’t worry, I did not take exception to it, and I don’t think you seriously meant offence, but you did help reinforce the point I made.
I have no problem with people who believe in god, or any other higher power. Although I am compelled to place trust in the methodologies of science over the emotional whims of the human condition, I do have my own questions about the nature of reality. I will never discount the possible existance of a god.
That said, my issue lays directly with Religion. Religion is a fundimentalist institution meant to blind you to the truth of reality. When the Emperor Constantine and the First Council of Nicea very selectively unified a whole bunch of early pagan folk stories into the works of the New Testament, I guarantee you they had one goal in mind: Unifying religion for the purposes of controlling and sedating the masses.
Recently, Religion has been creeping back into the supposedly secular world of Politics… this is why there has been such a recent backlash by Athiests. When important world policy is being shaped by the concept that the planet won’t be populated much longer because judgement day is at hand, there’s a huge problem. If you don’t believe me, simply look at the many attempts of the Republican party in the US to block legislation that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the US to acceptable levels.
If you believe in God, that’s great. If you want to lead a good life, that’s even better. You try to have integrity, be honest, try to be a good person… so do countless atheists and agnostics. We just don’t let Religion taint our views and opinions of the world for the worst.
So my question to you is: Why do you have to be religious to believe in god and try to live a good life?
There was a brilliant line uttered in a hollywood horror movie once… it went something to the effect of “Don’t put an institution between you and your higher power”
That said, I will personally continue to love all human beings, believers or not, whilst vehemently attacking the churches that poison the minds of billions.
No offence intended, and i didn’t mean literally when i said science is a new religion.
How clever, a strawman argument against christians.
I doubt any of them could comment on punctual v.s. gradual evolution.
Either way, I think its strange that evolution is what nonbelievers (of which I call myself) always bring up.
Its not difficult to reconcile the concept of god with evolution, I mean, most christians ignore most of the stuff in the bible already.
Actually in my experience, the ones that most often bring evolution into the debate are the creationists… they do so because they realize that the backwards things preached in the old testament (specifically Leviticus and Deuteronomy, which they use as a justification for their bigotry) can only be taken seriously if you take the entire bible literally. Thus, they must argue that creation as taught by Genisis (which goes against evolution) is literal… which they argue, should be taught in school alongside evolution… under a different name of course… they seek to call it “Intelligent Design”.
That said, a strawman argument is a misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. This video can’t be a strawman because it repeats the opponent’s actual position, word for word. Granted, they aren’t the opinions of all creationists, however I’d love to see an intelligent argument for Genisis brand creation, as I never have… and I doubt I ever will.
Sorry, but that’s just daft. Juvenile emotions reality not make. I must know, I tried 
My question to you would be why do you think me qualified to answer that question?
I don’t think you have to be religious to believe in god or try to live a good life. (Extrapolate the obvious, not all relegious good people are good people). I will say one thing though, the Catholic church, and many churchces have a bad wrap, and they have brought in onto themselves. However, many sensative and sometimes complex moral issues in order to be discussed must have someone working to pull in each direction. The concept of religion, of providing moral insight and guidance is not a bad thing. Is perhaps, one of the greatest things that can be aspired to.
It doesn’t work perfectly. I know that many athiasts and non-athiasts alike dont like it when people preach. For the most part, neither do I. Particularly when people preach in absolutes. However, the church exists to contemplate and provide guidance for society on moral issues, and part of the job of that institution is to provide this insight to society, including the ones it doens’t want to hear. Even though it will be wrong some of the time, religion is not a bad thing. It’s just the human influence on the concept that is flawed. But not so flawed as to make it without value.
Think about it. It’s a difficult job, one I wouldn’t want to have. The people who dedicate their life to the church (the ones that really dedicate their life, for example spending 7 years in seminary and the rest of their lives working on humanitarian issues they are passionate about), that is something tremendously respectable.
You’re confusing creationists with christians. Obviously creationists have to address evolution… they bring it up simply by identifying themselves as creationists. I grew up in christian environment, I went to a catholic school, and I have never met a christian that says stuff like that. Just because some backwoods hick said it, doesn’t mean you can generalize that as the christian stance, which is what I was referring to. That makes it a strawman argument.
Many christians believe the supposed sacrifice of jesus fulfilled the old testament, abrogating mosiac law in the old testament (leviticus/deuteronomy).
My point was that as atheists, we tend to focus too much on the evolution debate (if you can call it that), forgetting that christians can easily reinterpret the stories of genesis, as they have done with much of the bible, to fit with modern secular thinking. There are more fundamental arguments to be made.
Hmmm? How so? I didn’t mention christians at all 
The video never claims that these views are the views of all Christians… nor did I state that when I posted it… therefore there has been no misrepresentation of the “christian stance”.
There’s a reason I attacked the intentions and social implications of religion in my posts instead of talking about fossil records.
They acted that out very very well. No way could I do that without laughing.
Excellent. It was that good, I wanted to slowly dip the guy in the blue shirt into the acid he was talking about, before I realised they were acting. But that’s because I am an evil Atheist… 
clear thinking and skeptical anti-theist here! …
mlon
And it’s something that can be achieved without an ancient book containing more evil than good. It is perfectly possible for our current society to come up with a set of moral guidelines we can agree upon. Religion has indoctrinated us with the idea that we are evil from birth… but I disagree entirely. Human beings are born as clean slates, and if treated well, and given a decent moral foundation, good intentions will quickly take seed. Religion is not needed for this, and in my opinion, can have the complete opposite effect. Teaching a child of fire and brimstone is a great way to make them fear themselves and their universe, and as a result, give them a devil complex.
But the church doesn’t provide any great insight that the great thinkers in society can’t. In fact, the church’s “insight” that we don’t want to hear is most often simply conjecture brought on by the backwards nature of the bible. The bible for instance, has a very anti-sexual nature, which I think is absolutely ludicrous. Therefore, one often hears from the clergy about the “evil nature” of sexual urges… when in reality, there’s nothing evil about them… sex is the most positive and natural thing we have to make ourselves happy. It’s better than any drug, it’s not dangerous at all when practiced safely, and if we weren’t so damned uptight about it as a society, chances are many of our social problems would simply disappear. So who is a priest to tell me that I can’t engage in [enter amazingly lewd, though completely consensual sexual act here] in the comfort of my own home, with my girlfriend who I’ve not yet married?
The church should not be dictating these things, because it’s causing damage by doing so. At the very least, it’s making people hate themselves for no good reason… what’s worse, it’s making people hate others for having perfectly natural human urges. At the very worst, religion is the cause of some of the world’s most horrible man-made tragedies. 9-11 is a perfect example of what happens when a religion takes its scripture too literally. The thing that most Christians don’t realize is that the Islamic religion is based on the same texts as Christianity and Judaism. I personally don’t want to see this world destroyed because of a religious war. As long as religion exists however, there will be tension between the various religions and denominations. It’s only a matter of time before that tension reaches a peak.
Their time would be better spent taking 7 years of sociology, psychology, and social work, and working on such humanitarian issues. At least that way, they would be basing their conclusions on factual research rather than scriptural hearsay… and they wouldn’t be helping to propagate the evil that is religion.
Everybody is a believer
i believe in stuff like gravity, not only is it a law, it’s also a good idea 
maybe it’s possible for physical things to have spiritual qualities ie. no higher power/realm but the atoms & shit we have down here is just extra awesome, more awesome than meets the eye. cos that’s what religion’s about innit, stuff being just that little bit more extra awesome. But then again, ‘more than meets the eye’ is what all the floaty bollocks is about.
what bugs me about organised religion is that every religion seems to get shit from atheists, except for the buddhists.
just because they’re genuinely oppressed and non-violent doesn’t mean they’re not a bunch of bellends
What? Optimus Prime is God?