I have noticed that from renoise 3.0 I can’t assign an already existing sample in another keymap range.
Basically, on Renoise 2.8, the keymap context menu used to show me all the sample availables for that instrument when selecting the “Insert New” > (sample name).
This doesn’t happen more on Renoise 3.0, which shows me only “Insert New” > “Load sample(s)”.
Is this normal ?
Currently you cannot assign one sample to multiple keyzones in Renoise 3.0. This follows through in the LUA API limitations.
There has been a debate on allowing an “alias” of the same sample being assigned to another keyzone which would sort of solve that limitation, but the idea didn’t made it into 3.0
Won’t this new system increase the file size and CPU usage of all instruments that need multiple keyzones of the same sample? For instance if I have an instrument that has 12 samples (for the octave) and want to map that across the octaves, that would mean I would need 108 individual samples, using several identical copies of the one octave? How does this make sense? I know that in a lot of cases you can just extend your highest note all the way across and your lowest note to down to C0, but with samples that feature rich harmonics like acoustic instruments, that doesn’t really work and ends up sounding like crud.
I’m not familiar with the technical aspects of the renoise engine but if it worked before, why would it be limited now? The alias idea seems like it would patch the issue but maintaining aliases seems pretty frustrating, especially considering how simple things were before.
The alias system would not duplicate the sample, but merely create a duplicate handle to the same sample, so it would save you the memory.
You need the handle if you want to be able to select the specific keyzone that is otherwise not reachable in the keyzone map (e.g. if it is hidden under a stack of other layers).
Duplicating the same 12 samples across 10 octaves doesn’t really sound any better either aside that each sample will only be triggered on its own multitude(s) of its base frequency, you can still hear the aliasing artifacts well enough.
The sample alias handler soltuion would not improve that either and i’m not sure if that worked fine in 2.8 as well even without the sampleslot overhead.
In 2.8 samples were allowed to be drifting inside an instrument (not being assigned to anything at all). The new structure, specially regarding the way samples or sample groups can be assigned to modulation chains and fx chains enforces the requirement of samples being assigned to only one keyzone.
I can understand the drag and drop of samples from the sample list to the keyzones seems a heavy loss, you can however still have the same insertion method when you drag the samples from the file-browser onto the keyzone area. The only fancy work with inserting 12 samples covering one octave is that you have the sample filenames in the proper order that you can also drag these 12 samples on the right spot in the keyzone area without having to shift them.
I would hope that the drag and drop from within the sample list returns though, specially if the basenote would not be touched meanwhile (These needs to be changed currently). Would be very much happy if drag and drop an existing set of sample with the right mousebutton to the keyzone editor would pop up a dialog with the question if i want them to duplicate as an Alias on the spot.
Right. I figured that aliasing wouldn’t cause issues with memory or file size. I was referring to how it is currently set up. I see your point about selecting hidden/stacked keyzones though. Good idea about the drag and drop prompting the creation of an alias.
I guess generally I would only ever need to copy one octave up and one down from the root. Tonal quality is less an issue as pitch. When sampling an instrument like a thumb piano, the surrounding non-harmonic but key sensitive notes resonate. So if a C-4 is plucked, B-3 and D-4 will resonate. Now if we simply stretch the keyzone of that C-4 up the octave, if E-4 is triggered, then D#-4 and F#-4 also resonate, creating a pretty nasty dissonance. I realize this probably isn’t a factor for most Renoise users but it is something that I utilize regularly.
Thanks for all the info. I definitely look forward to the update that handles sample aliases.