PPS. I exchange 16 bit results to 32 bit results and as you can see we have big difference in volume of low peaks in low and middle frequences.
May be it is couse for new tests. What all and taktik think about this?
“On this graph we can see the same frequency bump at 13-14khz which are absent in 1.5 ! It’s very strange… Maybe it was a bug of older versions ?
Is it possible this little freq. peak affects so audible differense when summing all channels and fx together at mixing ?”
In my graphs peak in 13-14khz have volume -11db and -14db (!) in compare with old versions of renoise. It can be reason of the bug.
Sorry, but i don’t understand how Filter DSP can affect the test results if it was not used in tests ?..
Is it affects whole mix even when we usen’t it ?
For full description of situation i make test of Renoise 1.281. And as I has expected before it have very near results to Renoise 1.5.
As resume i can say - indirect consequences of the bug is finded.
Renoise 1.281 test song 2 frequence graph:
If I understand you right you mistake. I don’t use Renoise native effects in that example wav files.
I would suggest that we do move this topic to general discussions and go on with the 1.5 final release, which was originally planed for the last weekend. Then do some more intensive tests on this topic, and if we found and fixed something, do a small update (like Renoise 1.5.1) together with some other improvements that came up in the past. Can everybody live with that?
Thanks to everybody helping to find out so far. Lets go on with this. Such stuff is important, because Renoise is about sound, so we should be sure here.
Its just that I would like to have 1.5 final out this year, and this topic came up far too late to get tested well enough.
This problem sounds awesomely difficult to track down. If we’re counting votes for a release soon, my vote is yes.
One question though, will the release version have more optimisations? At the moment rc2 idles at around 10%-20% on my iBook, whereas other apps that use CoreAudio extensively idle at around 1%-3%. I know that Renoise is fairly complex, but my experience with compiler optimisations is that they speed things up to at least half the cpu usage when using gcc 3.3 or later.
Agree about final 1.5 release.
Landmark we need to step over and keep movin’
“I would suggest that we do move this topic to general discussions”.
Nice idea. In general disscussions we can find more testers.
“and go on with the 1.5 final release, which was originally planed for the last weekend.”
Sorry with current quality of mixing and speed of GUI for me it is not workable version.
I don’t want offend you but I think RC3 is more better variant in this situation. And try to
do something with CPU and memory load when many VST loaded. In previous versions
this realised more better then in 1.5.
“Then do some more intensive tests on this topic, and if we found and fixed something,”
Maybe after some few days i make another test and try to make tests with compare of
Mad Tracker VST mixing quality. Becouse I think best side of Mad Tracker is mixing
quality. It had it in every times, but regrettably I don’t like GUI of MT2 and this reason of
my transition to Renoise. And be very good if somebody made test with compare of VST
mixing quality in Fruity Loops and Reason. But in present time i’m very busy and as I say
I back after few days.
“Thanks to everybody helping to find out so far. Lets go on with this. Such stuff is important,
because Renoise is about sound, so we should be sure here. Its just that I would like to
have 1.5 final out this year, and this topic came up far too late to get tested well enough.”
Before next version i want report to you about few other bugs which I find.
Sorry if this offtopic in this theme.
-
Renoise 1.5 don’t save internal settings of vb-ffx4 VST - DX adapter. I know before
Renoise 1.281 had this problem too and in present time this bug is fixed in version 1.281.
But versin 1.5 have this bug too. -
When i close all channels around one, with double click left key on the mouse, all
channels around one is closed, but do not closed send channels if current sample channel
have send device included. And this is right decision. But send channels can have send
device included too, and necessary track this chain to the last send device. And leave
open all channels in this “chain” of sended channels. -
Renoise 1.5 have some errors with tracking and automatic disable not working in present
time VST effects. Especially in the send channels, it can be bound with don’t tracking full
“chain” of the sends. -
If you can somehow avoid problem with Chainer VST plugin it will be great. Becouse
I like and need it.
Edit:
- I know something about programming and want offer too you one idea
for optimisation dsp in renoise. I don’t know how renoise work and maybe
it already realised, but anyway i try to write about this.
As i think all dsp and vst effects work with small packages of sound, and
if in one song used many alike dsp plugins in some situations player of
renoise can exchange many alike dsp plugins to one dsp plugin and
exchenge parameters of this plugin from time to time when internal dsp
is work. It can relieve load of memory and cpu.
yes, Taktik, it’s best to release 1.5 final soon. The (small) bugfixes should be for version 1.51 or something like that.
That might be ok for some filters or simple amp effects, but what about plugins that use internal variables that are carried over time? A simple example is a delay plugin, which has a buffer for past audio data. Since vsts don’t inform the host whether or not they use internal variables, it’s impossible to determine whether renoise can use the one instance of a plugin for several different effects.
You extrasence and read my things. 
I think about this short time ago, and after this looks to the forum and surprised with this your post.
Yes it is. But renoise can measure sample delays of dsp effects and do this option when it possible.
P.S. And addition to my previous post: Be good if renoise can calculate sample delays of external dsp effects and have auto calibrate sample delay compensation in sample channels. As function of the channel or as apart DSP effect. Becouse will be better if this function will have possibility of manual setting. Becouse in some complex dsp combinations this function possible and probably will be make errors.
I know some other sequensers already have this function.
“But renoise can measure sample delays of dsp effects and do this option when it possible.”
Or other way - Renoise can have internal database which will be have names of plugins which can be “boosted”.
Or one more way - manual key “boost” on every plugin in the list of dsp plugins.
Don’t worry, in some cases specific problems and issues are ofcourse being attempted to solved in the background, but users having experiencing the specific problem the most will get an early edition for testing purposes, but the bug has to be serious enough for it.
As i see this topic gets a lot attention, it seems taken seriously enough (and sound should be at least perfect without side-effects else it’s just useless)
It’s not only the dev-team that always determine wether the next release will be out for a final or a next RC.
Currently 1.5 is pretty rock-solid upon a few tiny problems here and there and the goal is to solve the problem.
Do understand that taking serious measures in programming code can often lead to new serious bugs (overlooked connections etc) causing the program to become totally unstabile / unusable and this has got to be prevented at all costs.
Just understand: Bugfixing will not stop at all but there must be a revision where in all cases most people can rely on to work with and developers can go back to when all else fails.
So maybe 1.5 will not have your issue solved, but trust me, it will be solved.
yeah, well you placed 9th in Madtracker compo #2. Forget THAT, I should have won that year. 
hahahahaha 
@Extacado
It’s not so bad place I think. From near to 100 competitors. 
But it is don’t matter in present time. My primary intention in this theme
is make bugreport and make tracker which i work better. Can you say
something about whole this theme?
@all.
This theme is moved from Renoise 1.5 bugreports forum, to general
discussions for more tests, testers and opinions, don’t forgot about this.
For exmple can enybody do tests with compare of VST mixing quality in
Logic Audio & Cubase & Fruity loops Studio & Reason & Renoise?
I know some peoples who say Mad Tracker 2 mix sound better then
Renoise, but Cubase and Logic do this better than Mad Tracker 2.
Maybe this is wrong talks, but necessary test this.
I agree with vvois RC2 is a pretty damn rock solid program.
At idle it takes 0.7% CPU. (including my firewall nibbling CPU cycles there possibly?)
When playing the song “Tutorial3 - Glide And Pitch” on “highest CPU usage” it goes up to 1.3% CPU
This on a 3ghz P4 computer that I bought new without screen for 650 Euro/$850. Not that “spectacular” a machine nowadays when AMD64 4000+ is top of the line.
PS
My theory for the problem of thread is still that resampling possibly got better. I always thought the VSTi, Steinways’ “The Grand” sounded “muffled” at its built in “high quality resampling mode”. Because it removed (through interpolation) the aliasing that made the sounds a little “crispier”, but was infact “almost” only high frequency noise.
Otherwise, a lowpass filter hardly gets into the code as a bug? Its to complex piece of code that “very seldom” happens by mistake.
DS
PS2
A longshot (very) suggestion to what the “bug” is:
in <1.28 it applied resampling after the mixing.
in 1.5 it applies resampling to each track before mix
At least that would explain why the MIXING would change the sound, as aliasing increases with mixing, thus crispier, but only in the earlier versions.
DS2
wow. I guess the windows version is a lot more optimised than the osx version. I hope that repeating my request for a more optimised renoise on the mac isn’t taken as rudeness, I desparately want to run other audio software I’ve written whilst using Renoise, and I can’t when it eats 70% of cpu (by itself, as viewed in Activity Monitor) when playing the tutorial files. Renoise would ideally be my main sequencer and sampler, and I have other mixing and plugin stuff (mostly audiounits) I’d like to pipe it into. I’m running an iBook 1ghz g4, so although it’s not AMD64 4000+ status, it should cut it for mod tracking easily. My apologies to the devs if this is taken the wrong way, I’m only assuming that since the mac hasn’t had a final release yet, the current version has no optimisations and still has debugging symbols in it.
You have to work harder to get a better sounding mix, which would then sound good on higher quality systems and not just consumer systems. It’s common knowledge that consumer systems tend not to pick up the faults in a mix that better professional systems do.
No, I mean “good job” on your competition entries. I’d like to do another ‘madtracker’ compo, or a ‘renoise’ native-pluggins compo. (no vst)
So my opinion is:
-
Ether send the developers the RNS files that show why you think 1.25 is better. (this will be accomplished by making the RNS song in 1.25 and then opening the same RNS file in 1.5) or Quit complaining!
-
Not every VST file is perfect and with optimized code. MANY VST files have bugs.
-
Release 1.5-final.
I’ve downloaded those two mp3s and I hear that first 1.25 version sounds more “bright” but not in a natural way, I think it’s caused of bad rendering becouse it’s lo-fi sound and not natural treble harmonics. I guess it’s becouse of less perfect rendering, 1.5 sound is imo much more natural. Imo if you equalise 1.5 version you will have same level of treble but a lot more natural sounding. who wants to have that lofi effect just use some kind of filter on it… 1.25 is NOT better … but it IS more “bright”
that’s just my oppinion
tested on Akg K271 headphones.