Just brainstorming really, but imagine you could use an ipad as an additional control device for renoise, where you could control certain section of renoise depending on user,
for example you would have your mixer on ipad screen where you could control gains or move the DSP around with your fingers - or if you opened a vst effect or instrument you could
tweak the controllers directly through ipad - dragging automation curves could be awesome via this kind of device as well
mm future 
dragging automation curves how?
Yeah, pretty much everything except the automation curve drawing is already possible.
But TouchOSC actually has this component (multi-fader) which allows dragging through sliders:
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I guess the only missing piece then is a dedicated “envelope editor” for Duplex.
Hmmm…you’d need to hook it up to some parameter first, any ideas on how to control this? Renoise tools are not allowed to access the Renoise MIDI mapping system, so we need to select the parameter somehow.
I guess the only missing piece then is a dedicated “envelope editor” for Duplex.
Hmmm…you’d need to hook it up to some parameter first, any ideas on how to control this? Renoise tools are not allowed to access the Renoise MIDI mapping system, so we need to select the parameter somehow.
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Tablets are a fantastic tool for this kind of thing.
Tablets are a fantastic tool for this kind of thing.
Tablets are a fantastic tool for this kind of thing.
I believe all of this is possible. If it’s scriptable in LUA, it’s not a problem at all. It’s just a matter of someone doing it. I’m willing, I just need more hours in the day.
I had begun working on an extensive iPad layout, but the demands of the real world haven’t allowed me a lot of time to work on it.
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I added the ability to update track names and such, Duplex doesn’t support sending strings(well, mine does), but TouchOSC can update labels from strings, and even change the color of controls and such using strings. (Perhaps the details of which I could communicate to the maintainer of Duplex and have the feature implemented. The XY control on TouchOSC could also be easily supported in Duplex.)
Each of the DSPs are selectable, and (eventually, will) take you to a separate page to allow the editing of parameters.
As you can see, there’s all sorts of potential. All of these things are imminently possible. At some point, I figure I’ll get around to implementing automation envelope editing, but there’s a lot of implementation details that need to be hashed out. eg. The multifader control is limited to 64(70, really) faders, how should larger numbers of automation points be handled. There are a lot of interesting possibilities, and a lot of ways in which automation points can be edited… perhaps it should be higher up on my priority list.
As a side note, it’d probably be best to sidestep duplex and make a dedicated tool in order to implement a really good TouchOSC solution. There’s so much customization that could be done, it’d be nice to implement it at a more finely grained level.
That! Looks! Awesome! 
I got into TouchOSC for a brief period, but found it at the time too much of a hassle just to get a decent layout on the thing…
@soggy_cheerio: That looks great! Almost 1:1 of the the Renoise mixer view, but how would you create devices on the fly? TouchOSC doesn’t support dynamic layouts, AFAIK. Correct me if I’m wrong?
If given the choice, I’d prefer tactile control over a touch screen. But one thing doesn’t rule out the other, and using an iPad for some things would be bloody awesome.
I’m intrigued at the idea of a dedicated Envelope application in Duplex (and wonder why the thought never arrived before now. Maybe because I don’t have an iPad 
).
I think it could become really useful - perhaps not as expressive as the automation recording we already got, but with more control.
TouchOSC supports, visibility, coloring, sizing, and position. It does not support creating controls on the fly. So, it does make maintaining different configurations a pain at times. You can usually work around it, but it requires a lot of “bookkeeping”. You can actually make a “menu” of sorts on TouchOSC, which would be useful for selecting which parameters to modify and such. It is a lot of trouble to do so, but I was able to do it.
Yup. The answer is both.
Tactile feedback obviates the need to look at a touchscreen, so some things just don’t transfer well. On the other hand, some things transfer so well and a touchscreen is so flexible that it really can’t be ignored as a complement to any setup. For example, there are also some excellent alternative midi input controllers for the iPad. ( http://http://www.wizdommusic.com/GeoSynth/index.html , http://thumbjam.com/ , and many more.) (An even larger touchscreen leads to even more possibilities)
The first time I mapped a multifader control to an EQ was an epiphany. “Dude, you just drew an EQ on your iPad.”
Another excellent thought… Just as with a number of other Duplex devices, you can connect multiple iPads to the same Renoise. The collaboration possibilities jump through the roof. Different people controlling their own monitor mixes (using sends), different people controlling their own effects, all sorts of stuff. Jam session anyone? (Seriously, I need a half dozen iPads.)
And, back to the envelope editor topic
Everything you mentioned makes a lot of sense, and actually wouldn’t be that hard to cobble together from what’s already in Duplex. It’d be very similar to a number of Duplex “applications”. It’s just a matter of changing what’s being modified. Automation envelope points are stored as arrays, I believe. So, it does differ a bit, but it’d be somewhat similar to the Effects Duplex application, just that the array has an extra dimension. (value, time)
The loss of resolution if you don’t have enough inputs to control the entire envelope is what’s most concerning to me. Sure, TouchOSC has the ability to control 64(really it’s 70) points, but it’d be nice do this from other controllers, which may for example only have 12 or 16 inputs. I’ve thought about having the ability to zoom in and out on the envelope, much like you can in the automation envelope editor (locking to lines, beats, etc) as a means of getting around that. I believe this is where the meat of the problem to this type of envelope editor resides.
Detailing the behaviors and the settings for those behaviors as to what happens when zooming, locking, etc is the challenge.
Yeah, the layout editor isn’t very robust. It just doesn’t do certain things very well.
It wouldn’t be a stretch to create a more robust editor/layout manager that could create certain kinds of layouts using predetermined components or pages. (eg. I want a 10 channel mixer, with transport pattern controls on the top, BAM! Here’s your layout, here’s the Renoise mappings.) It’d be something I’d look into if enough people were interested.
I wouldn’t worry too much about that - keep it simple, really. At this point, it’s all about integration, not features. Zooming and such is only really usable when you have sufficient controls and “resolution” (sliders). I have an iPhone, which can hold 24 sliders. But I still need/want to use the Envelope application with the few un-assigned physical knobs that I have left on my cheap MIDI controller, and zooming on those …well 
Btw: as an afterthough on the Envelope app, I think we need a straightforward way to record automation data too - not controlling an envelope, but recording one over time, with a single knob/fader. I’m talking about back to basics - touch some parameter, and tweak a knob/fader to adjust/record the value. Again, integration is the tricky part?
Back to the subject, here’s a picture which visualizes the present state of Duplex - and then some future stuff too, sorry about that 
A HUGE FAKED detail is the use of dynamic text in this interface + neither of the features marked as (TODO) are currently available.
But still, this is actually my personal “best possible iPad experience” and most of it is already possible. I just baked some features from the TODO list into the layout to keep myself inspired.
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Edit#2: having played around with the minified version, I think the multi-sliders are a bit problematic. They are a bit too small (maybe three or four instead of five sliders could do it?), and also it would be better if they were individual sliders (it’s too easy to accidentally change pick up the neighbouring parameter).
That looks great.
All that needs to be done to support text labels is:
It’s possible to change what page is displayed dynamically.
eg. If you were to select a track, you could list its DSP chain, and jump to a page with the appropriate controls when an effect is selected.
Or, you could automatically switch which page is displayed based on what view you are using in Renoise, or even key-binding in Renoise to change the displayed page on TouchOSC.
A lot of these TODOs are just custom Duplex applications. Some are actually already there… Metronome and transport for example. It’s just a matter of creating the appropriate mappings for TouchOSC as the Duplex controller.
There are some things which would benefit from some changes to Duplex, although they’re somewhat specific to TouchOSC type situations. I’m specifically referring to the use of labels and such(tying specific labels to buttons and sliders for example). I guess I’d call those compound control mappings.
Is it easily possible to have Duplex NOT build the view when creating a controller?
And, one last important consideration…
Even at the early stage, it’d be helpful to come up with some standardized naming conventions for TouchOSC and Duplex controls. Doing so, might even facilitate the ability to configure OSC mappings from within Renoise, similar to the MIDI mapping functionality. It’d also make creating complex or unique layouts much easier.
I’ve also started looking at Control. (another OSC implementation on iOS and Android) Control’s biggest advantage is that it’s scriptable on the device. Control can actually create entire layouts on the fly.
@soggy_cheerio: because of the increasing technical details, I responded here (duplex beta topic).
Let’s keep this thread about how to bring Renoise to the iPad (Duplex or not) ?
This could be interesting: http://liine.net/en/products/lemur/
I’m not sure about the MIDI CC resolution though, I’ve tried a number of MIDI controllers for the iPad but most of them work with 14 bit resolution and I believe Renoise works with 7 bit.
This could be interesting: http://liine.net/en/products/lemur/
Interesting stuff - Lemur has always been ahead of the game, with physics-based controls and such!!
Check this out as well:
This is a teaser for an upcoming Duplex app. It takes over any XYPad device in Renoise and will - perhaps - feature vector-based motion as well.
Funny thing is, you don’t need any fancy devices - it should work natively in Renoise, or with just two knobs, on any controller …
In the “video”, I’m using TouchOSC, holding my phone and using the tilt sensors to control filter + delays. The middle XY pad is used for controlling the repeater
This is what it sounded like:
AHHHH HOLY CRAP! can’t wait till ipad 3, this will me MINE. What are the odds of 14 bit resolution coming to renoise? Would be very nice to have more than 128 levels of midi control sometimes.
Thanks for the link! I had no idea lemur was coming to iOS!
