Keyboard & Pattern Note, Octave Correlation & Display

For AU/VST instrument properties, basenote is C-4 by default… but C-4 (Z key) triggers C-3 in the VI. Add the fact that some systems consider C-3 to be Middle C, doesn’t this get confusing for anyone else? I’m a C-3 person myself so all I have to do is change the basenote to C-2 to get the pattern editor and VI to match (every time I load a new VI, which makes me think it’d be cool if we could set a default basenote at the global level). Just curious.

You on a Qwerty keyobard?

You know you can change octaves? How else would you get all the range from your computer keyboard.

See the Keyboard Octave section of this link:

Yes, I’m on a qwerty keyboard and I know you can change octaves, but that’s not my issue. Take a look at the following screenshot. Keyboard octave is set to C-4… the note in the pattern editor is C-4… the instrument’s basenote is set to C-4… but if you look at the keyboard of the plugin C-3 is being triggered. This isn’t just limited to Vienna Instruments Pro either, it happens to all my other VIs (Absynth, Kontakt, etc.). How come it’s not C-4 all the way throughout? Also, if I use my actual MIDI keyboard, the C-4 key inputs C-5 into the pattern editor. No consistency. To summarize…

qwerty keyboard C-4 -> C-4 in pattern editor -> C-3 in plugin
MIDI keyboard C-4 -> C-5 in pattern editor -> C-4 in plugin

I changed the base note in the VST Instrument Properties to C-3 to correlate with intended note input.

I also manually adjusted the basenote to the correct instrument ranges when I did piano, guitar, bass, etc. samples.

Hmmm… but does this not mean, then, that something is not working as intended? It seems to me that a C-4 should be a C-4 across the board without the need for adjustments. Otherwise, you’re constantly telling yourself, “hmmm, okay, I see C-4 in the pattern editor, but I’ll set the plugin to C-3 so when I hit the Z-key, C-4 will be triggered in the plugin… great. But wait a minute… what if I’m using my MIDI keyboard? The C-4 key triggers C-5 in the pattern editor and the plugin.” :wacko:

I must be the only one bothered by this inconsistency since I haven’t seen this brought up in any of my searches. :unsure:

Yes i know it is annoying, but there are also plugins where C-5 in plugin is C-4 in the pattern editor. Consistency is not just a Renoise specific fail here it is how the vendor decides which octave offset range to start by default.
The midi notes remain the same but where does the first octave start… at 0 or 1?

Understood, but isn’t the discrepancy between the input from a qwerty keyboard and a MIDI keyboard independent of the plugin (and its settings)? Hitting the Z-key should produce the same MIDI note message as hitting Middle C on a MIDI keyboard, no?

Take REAPER for example. The qwerty MIDI keyboard is perfectly in sync with my hardware MIDI keyboard – a C-3 is the same on both.

Does Reaper has an octave 0 range?

Yes. It has a range of E-(-2) to Gb-8.

True, I haven’t seen this octave subject pop up as much as the -6Db subject.

I haven’t used midi keyboards in a while, I’ve limited my workflow to using QWERTY, maybe that’s why I currently don’t have a problem with it. Maybe that will change if I start using midi keyboards again and there’s an increase of system switching.

My MIDI master keyboard doesn’t even has base-keys labelled. So for me this is indication enough there are no real rules here.
I can either switch octave on my master keyboard or in Renoise. Whichever works better for me will be my choice of change.

I don’t mind switching octaves either; that’s not the problem. The problem is there’s no consistency between the qwerty keyboard and a MIDI keyboard – they’re out of sync.

There’s indeed something fishy with how Renoise threats MIDI octaves from external MIDI. We’ll try to clean this up for the next release, making sure that it follows the standard as closely as possible.

But as the others mentioned there unfortunately still will be some confusion on how to visualize MIDI notes - what’s what. Some software use -1 or -2 octave representation. We always use a 0 (0 is the first note octave) display, cause we restrict our note display to 3 digits in the pattern editor, have no room for a “-” octave.