Linux: ALSA performance degraded severely from 3.4.0 onwards

[lobosch]

my Firefox doesn’t generate crackly crap when

Firefox doesn’t use pipewire-alsa, but pipewire-pulse and doesn’t try to negotiate low-level settings for the soundcard.

Like I get that the hw device works, but now let’s assume I want to use the system default device: why so awful, even with large buffers?

Have you set the buffer, period and sample rate settings in pipewire? Or have you tried selecting the jack driver in Renoise instead of alsa?

I vaguely remember how I set up the configuration file “.asoundrc”.

If you have a dedicated sound card you can block just for Renoise or another single audio application, asoundrc might be a way to go. I do remember vaguely setting up dmix for alsa a long time ago and those are not pretty memories

[d2TiTus]

OK, I went further. I’m not going to leave this alone because it tarnishes both Linux audio and Renoise’s reputation.

I just installed both LMMS and Mixxx, and set those to ALSA, using “default device”. I didn’t change any settings. I left as default. No tinkering. They both work flawlessly. No crackling. I can use my web browser and watch YouTube at the same time, and other apps, which is my test to see that it’s not getting exclusive access to the sound.

So - it may be true that the ALSA default device has posed some challenges to the Renoise devs. But it seems other devs have managed to make it work.

I even installed Linux on a Ryzen 5600G, and using Renoise with ALSA with “default device” crackles just as much as the Macbook Air from 2013. This suggests it’s not just my old hardware causing issues, but the software itself.

There is still something not right about how Renoise is performing with ALSA, default device, with default settings. Something that other software manages to do fine.

Cmon guys, there’s beer money in the form of crypto still.

You can do it - I believe in you. Fix this frigging mess.

[tkna]

Would changing the buffer size improve the situation?

Also, have you selected the appropriate default device in the pulseaudio settings, etc?

Preferences - Renoise User Manual

In addition, the manual states that there are various prerequisites for running Renoise on Linux, and that user intervention is required.

Linux FAQ - Renoise User Manual

The optimal settings vary depending on the environment.
Just because the version has been upgraded, it does not mean that it should run without noise using the default settings.

[d2TiTus]

@tkna

Just because the version has been upgraded, it does not mean that it should run without noise using the default settings.

It should run without noise using sensible default settings because that’s what users want. If the choice was between “works out of the box” and “you always have to set it up, otherwise it’s garbage”, I don’t know why you would opt for the latter. Nothing is gained by defending the poor default performance. I get it - there’s work required. The easy option is to do nothing and just say “that’s how it is man, Linux audio is crap”.

And I could accept that IF every application that tried to use audio suffered from the same problem, and a system-wide fix was required to get anything to work properly. However, because LMMS can do it, and Mixxx can do it - on these same machines (both apps that I would consider to be “similar enough” in their purpose/requirements), I believe it IS in fact possible for Renoise to also achieve this level of quality - where a typical user can install a typical Linux distro and it “Just Works” out of the box. It’s the year 2025. We can do better than this. The evidence is that other software is doing better than this.

I understand that Linux is highly configurable and Linux audio is a bit meh, but when Mixxx works out of the box with ALSA default device, LMMS works out of the box with ALSA default device, and Renoise doesn’t, it’s clearly not just a Linux/ALSA thing.

I don’t need “optimal” settings - as you say, the optimum varies. But I do expect functional, to the same standards as other software - like LMMS or Mixxx - which both just work, magically, somehow, when Renoise doesn’t.

Can you all follow my logic here? I’m not searching for one solution, once, just for me, on this machine. I’m trying to make the default option not absolutely crap because apparently it can be done, but we’ve either chosen not to, or convinced ourselves it was impossible when it’s clearly not.

[taktik]

Changing the number of buffers (periods count) sometimes makes a big difference on some setups. Does changing the Periods/Buffers option in Renoise’s prefernces change something for you?

Else I agree that it would be great to use default settings that works for most Linux users, but setting up audio on Linux is generally very difficult. So it’s also difficult to find settings that work for everyone.
For this reason, we’ve allowed the use of the “default system device”, which, in heory, should be preconfigured by the system and therefore more likely to work.

[d2TiTus]

@taktik

Changing the number of buffers (periods count) sometimes makes a big difference on some setups. Does changing the Periods/Buffers option in Renoise’s prefernces change something for you?

While it changes the character of the garbage buffering, it doesn’t seem to work with any combination of settings that I’ve tried [while using this default system device - not using it is one option, but defeats the purpose of it existing]. Yet, I have Mixxx playing an mp3 with the ‘default’ system device and Mixxx’s sound is working fine. While playing YouTube through Firefox. It’s sharing the audio device, as a normal user expects.

@taktik

For this reason, we’ve allowed the use of the “default system device”, which, in heory, should be preconfigured by the system and therefore more likely to work.

Yes, “in theory” this device works. In practice, it does work with Mixxx but isn’t working via Renoise - with either default settings or any weird combination of buffer length and periods. The only solution I can find is to not use it, which implies it’s broken. Hence the bug report.

What setup do you have and can you make it work for you? Or do you also just avoid using it because it’s terrible?

If it’s working for everyone else, and not me, that’s one thing. If no one can get it to work and everyone is using something else because it’s broken, then that’s even more reason to fix it.

Can you logically explain why Mixxx doesn’t have garbage sound with the default system device, but Renoise does? That’s really what I want to understand.

[tkna]

Mixxx appears to function normally because the default setting is JACK.

However, some systems do not have JACK, so I personally feel that setting ALSA as the default is a more reliable and simple choice.
That said, there are other approaches, such as “falling back to ALSA when JACK is not available.” This may be more user-friendly for users who want to “use it right out of the box.”

[d2TiTus]

@tkna

Mixxx appears to function normally because the default setting is JACK.

I’m going into Mixxx and setting it to ALSA, with “default” as the device.

I’m focused on wanting this ALSA “default system device” to work in Renoise. The justification is so that it works out of the box. Since 3.4.0 it offers this ‘default system device’ as the default option but it doesn’t seem to work. I want the default system device in ALSA to work in Renoise as it does in other audio apps (ie, I want it to actually work).

Can ANYONE get the ALSA default sound device to work in Renoise?

[tkna]

@d2TiTus

I’m going into Mixxx and setting it to ALSA, with “default” as the device.

I see. Excuse me.

As you mentioned, if the issue occurs with the default device but not with specific hardware devices, I feel there is room for improvement.

[d2TiTus]

Been using Bitwig Studio, which also has no problems with ALSA default device.

Dem Renoise devs be slippin’.

Looking forward to someone figuring out what they’re doing wrong, because Renoise is the only app I have that’s having problems knowing how to use ALSA right now. Bumpity bump.

[martblek]

Although I don’t use the alsa driver anywhere, it works in Renoise without any problems. At least on my Manjaro.
Linux Lnx 6.12.43-1-rt12-MANJARO #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Fri Aug 22 22:17:59 UTC 2025 x86_64 GNU/Linux

[SoundConcepts]

As you have already figured out, this is definitely not an ALSA problem. However, since there don’t seem to be any problems in other Linux distributions with Renoise and other programs, this hint is the real key to the solution. It’s more likely that one or more of your files (libraries) that work with ALSA are either outdated or missing entirely. If I’m correct, the error occurred after the update in your operating system, so the problem lies solely with the operating system.

[martblek]

For example, I can’t work on the same configuration in Windows 11 with sound. All crackling. On Linux it’s fine and thanks to the jack driver and “virtual wires” I can connect many standalone audio programs into one chain (even those that run under Wine).

[tkna]

He seems to be talking about the default device.

Since he frequently changes the main output device, maybe he wants to lock down the settings?
Even in that case, I feel like using JACK|pipewire-jack with the proaudio profile via pavucontrol or similar should resolve it.
Why is he so fixated on using ALSA?

[d2TiTus]

I’m fixated with the ALSA default device because it’s the default option, every other app works with it, and Linux shouldn’t be the only OS where you have to jump through hoops to do the simplest things. I’ve been using Linux for a long time and it’s soooo close to being good enough for everyone to use, but this one niggly thing is annoying me - it’s annoying other people too, which is why I reported it in the first place. If we all just ignore the problem, it will never get fixed.

Renoise is one of the “Linux native” DAWs - which I really like - it was the reason I bought a license in the first place - I wanted a Linux native DAW. I don’t want to use Wine and all that crap. I want to make music, not be a sys admin. That’s the stereotypical joke of Linux users - that we spend all our time configuring our system rather than actually doing what we were trying to do.

Consider a normal user who wants to escape the clutches of Apple or Microsoft - they install Linux, and as if by magic it Just Works. They’re thrilled. Then they try Renoise, and it performs like crap. Suddenly they doubt their life choices. I understand that Linux has the ability to reconfigure almost everything if you want to, but in the interest of usability it makes sense that the “default device” - the one assigned when you install the app - should actually work as intended. It’s just a sound device. For most people, you just want it to play sound. It’s a simple thing to ask. Yet, despite this, it crackles and you are thrown into “sys admin” mode as you have to start debugging, searching the internet, and changing things instead of enjoying the app.

I’ll repeat for anyone else reading: I understand that everyone else has realized that the default device doesn’t work, and they’ve found a way around it. I know how to work around it too, but I don’t want that. My point is simply that Renoise is the only app that has this problem, therefore my conclusion is that it’s a bug in Renoise, and I am requesting it be fixed. I just want to install Linux, install Renoise, and then click play and use it - LIKE EVERY OTHER APP.

If your preferred audio option doesn’t have a bug, then great. But the option I want - the default option that is selected for every user when they install the app - DOES have a bug - namely that it doesn’t work and crackles - and so I’m respectfully asking that the developers acknowledge the issue, acknowledge that every other audio app seems to use it correctly, and therefore connect the dots that the problem is not the ALSA default device inherently, but the way Renoise seems to be using it.

I feel like “using JACK|pipewire-jack with the proaudio profile via pavucontrol” is not something a new user needs to hear when the most sensible situation would be that the default device actually works as you would expect, and manages to do in all other cases except Renoise.

Which part of “ONLY RENOISE HAS THIS PROBLEM” do you not understand?

Please put aside your ego - I don’t need to know how you’ve avoided using the broken default device, or that you’ve got a particular config that you use because you use Arch btw. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is new to Linux, is having a great time, until they install Renoise. Why introduce friction at this point? Why not just fix the bug?

[martblek]

I don’t think it’s a bug.
Try listing your settings first and then we can solve something.
There’s not a single listing in the entire thread to jump off from.
what does “lsmod” say, what does “aplay -l” say? What does “wpctl status” say?
I’d start here and the thread wouldn’t have to be that long.

[d2TiTus]

I will entertain your request, although I think you /still/ misunderstand what I’m asking for and why I’m asking for it.

If there’s something in there that you can see which you would change, that’s great. But the point still stands - with this particular computer (a Linux Mint 22.2 fresh build, all updates applied, Renoise 3.5.2 installed with default settings): Bitwig works, Mixxx works, Audacity works, Spotify works, Firefox works - everything else works and can share the ALSA default device and play an audio stream without crackling just fine…. except Renoise.

Logic suggests that if everything else works except Renoise, then the problem is not with my system or my configuration, but instead with Renoise. THAT is what I want fixed. I shouldn’t have to do anything. The default option should work, and I know it can, as evidenced by the other apps achieving such an outcome without tinkering.

[martblek]

the problem is that sometimes alsa simply can’t keep up.
Crackling etc can be caused by many things like playing from multiple sources in different sample rates etc. Sometimes you play a video in the browser and when Renoise or Reaper is playing the sound from them sounds metallic. I turn off the video and it’s fine again. So I don’t think the problem is in Renoise but rather in pipewire-alsa. But I was more surprised by the picture why you don’t have the default sound device set (default configured devices).
Also your pipewire in the distribution is a bit older. 1.0.5 vs 1.4.7.
Try running “pw-top” somewhere on your desktop in a terminal and monitor the load. At least that way you can find out what’s slowing it down

[tkna]

Adjusting settings to suit your environment and situation is only natural.
If ALSA alone solved everything, nothing else would be needed.
I’m sorry, but insisting on ALSA’s default device feels like a kind of obsession.
You should stop imposing your obsessive expectations as obligations on others.
Even if it feels like a bug, developers have no inherent obligation to “fix” it.
It doesn’t matter what other software does.
Users need to accept using it as-is.
Whether paid or free, users are not the developers’ bosses.
Threats are pointless. Insulting developers will only make them dislike you.

[martblek]

that’s possible, but alsa is still the only driver in the kernel for controlling sound devices. I don’t count OSS, that’s the trilobite