Loudness And Mastering

I read something in one of the forums that someone prefers the loudness of logic to renoise for songs they wish have played out. Is this an issue? Does anyone have their Renoise songs played at a club on a big system?
I am interested to know the experience of people here, thanks a lot guys:)

I’ll probably get shot down for my lack of verifying this information before blurting… but I think the gist of it goes something like;
Renoise has different internal effects to the others (well duh! the “others” all have differences to the other “others” :) , but each with their merits or something like that, but in terms of actual loudness per se, Renoise has more headroom in the mix by default - I think it was something like it allows for another 3db on top of the master signal. But I think this is good, a feature! it means you can push your track to the maxxx inside the program and know it’s not going into the red on the physical output end, without having to tweak it every time…
I mean, in actually making stuff, I’m far more likely to need to protect my speakers from clipping than to require 100% signal… and theres nothing to stop you adding a couple of db to your final mix. Being 32 bit float internally, there shouldnt be much issue increasing the level a tad. Personally I think renoise sounds great, and most of the limitations I’ve come across have been with the things I’m plugging into it; for instance playing my analog synth through the line in is likely to have a fatter sound than using a freeware phase distortion vsti :)

anyway I’m sure someone else has a better argument to put forward than this, and I’m probably just rambling again.

Hm. I play live using renoise. All ok with loudness, clearness, etc.

If your rendered song isn’t anywhere near peaking when you look at it in a wave editor, then your mix is too quiet. Stick a gainer or limiter on the master channel.


All this ‘Logic is louder’ stuff is 100% bollex. A wav is a wav is a wav.

hehe a fair sarcastic point.
but, well, its all well and good to tell us what not to do, but what about what TO do? I mean i would say to start by looking at the total spectrum of sounds and see if you’re filling all the bits you want to rather than look at overall loudness. more thoughts?
I think people have a way of not describing what they mean in a technical sense when they are trying to portray a feeling for a sound using technical words… bigger sound I think he wants…and there are many ways to achieve that right?

A shitty mix on Renoise is no different to a shitty mix on Logic.

Quality process:

  • Good recordings
  • Good balance of voices in composition
  • High sample rate for best plugin performance
  • Excellent mixing
  • Excellent mastering

Each of those I could write an essay on, and I’ve done so many time throughout these forums.

If you’d like some formal help with your mixes or need mastering work please contact me and we can arrange something.

Totally true!!

I personaly think that mastering is the most difficult thing!
some people say they master their own stuff and the only thing I notice is an overcompressed complete digital clipped wavefile.

…Yes your track sounds louder but your sound sucks.

Ive not had any tracks i’ve made with Renoise in a club but when i’ve finished writing i intend to use it live at clubs.
It’s up to the job.

Spend some time reading about- and experimenting with compressors and limiters- as they alter the dynamics of a track incredibly.
I think its good advice not to use one across your main outputs until your mix is very close to sounding almost good enough not to need any mastering.
If your main mix is peaking all over the place, try individual compressors/limiters on problem tracks or bus first.
And then… maybe try something else :D

After all your hard work, the DJ in the club will adjust his volume fader to suit.

The DJ who is probably nearly Deaf due to spending so much time working in a loud venue may decide it needs some more or less bass/mid/treble. He will then mess with his 3 band eq and maybe the house sound systems 20 band eq.
Occasionally a terrorist dj will put your tunes through effects and filtering or perhaps a kaos pad.

Hopefully, the club sound system has been set up well, or in certain parts of the club your tune will sound flat and lifeless.
Ive had stuff played in places and i’ve noticed the speakers were out of phase.
Good luck and god speed.

big up!

yeah, totally. obviously each software’s internal mixing is gonna be slightly different, but the overall sound has nothing to do with the sequencer you use. renoise having more ‘headroom’ or whatever is meaningless also. it’s just numbers. But mixdown to 32-bit ;p

i will say that you don’t wanna limit the snot outta your final if you intend to play it out. it’ll sound like mush through a PA. I do two masters; one for digital distribution (squeeze every last dB out :wink: and one with a gentle push for live play by myself only… gotta have that clarity.