Just want to start an own topic of it.

I really guess if we start such a project we have to set some rules or whatever.

So here are my idea’s for it:

  • Song lenght could be 1 hour or more (that’s why I started this thread :))
  • We should definatly avoid to use VST/VSTis
  • Maybe every composer have a 3:00 or 4:00 min timelimit
  • We need to get a solution about the sample load I guess, like are we using a samplepack and nothing more or every composer could add some stuff from his own libary when its his turn

Some ideas so far because I’m not yet familirized with co-ops or something else.
But I guess it could be really funny to start such a project.

Waiting for your opinion now. B)

There is a basic problem here…

Let’s say I have to compose since minute 36th until 38th (even if I agree with Bantai when he says that there shouldn’t have to be a fixed lenght for each composer). I’ll be forced to listen to the previous 35 minutes, because if I skip patterns, I could skip some automation, fx’ values changes, fx bypasses or something similar, and the result would be that the sound I have to start with would be different from the sound that last composer wanted to leave to me…

We could use 2 different files: the mp3 one for global listening, with the complete song (to have the exact idea of its evolution), and the rns one with last 10/12 patterns for composing, to avoid to skip some important change to fx or to patterns…

About samples: yes, a (great) samplepack would be better, no external plugins (like in beatbattle)…

:drummer: see you :drummer:

Somewhere I agree with you Bantai but I’m still thinking that something like a Multicomposition is very interesting (sorry when I’m not so constructive but I’m ill and my eyes are hurting sigh)

That’s your sight. For me it’s just - “Just for the fun” and especially maybe learning from other artist :)

This sounds like a good solution but + I would suggest we could do also “Edit-Steps” as *.rns files. Like 1st part then 1st + 2nd part. Then 2nd + 3rd part … etc.

There’re another important things to do first I guess!

  • So I’d like to gather those artist and see who is interested.
  • Should we set a style or maybe we’re going out for freestyle?
  • How about the Samplepack (if we’re gonna to use such a thing) and who’s gonna to compile it?
  • What kind of samples???

Waiting for Ideas Ideas Ideas and many many many replies :)

Oh Bantai! Seems that you are somewhere professional here. Maybe you could handle as a guide? ;)

having done serveral co-ops; I gotta say that they are better kept between two parties.

But If you seriously want to start this, then no one should stop you and no amount of bashing should hurt your fun project.

I would contribute, and even sponser the space to do it.

Some concerns:

Contributors would have to know where they are in the list, what if two people are working at the same time? There would have to be a public list (html or maillist) that tells people who has what part when. A scheduled deadline could help speed things along.

If this were mine, I’d impose a time limit (<5min) and sample filesize cap, or the time limit and no new samples or sample edits.

How do you know when it’s done? Musically, when it’s over it’s OVER. The final contributor needs to know that he’s to compose the finale; or you might fill yourself in as the end all.

Anything else I think of, I’ll post.
Let the haters do what they do. They will fear your 2hour track!

Count me in…

Samplepack is nice

About style: freestyle wouldn’t be good. We could exclude some genre (maybe using a poll…) :rolleyes:

Ok so let´s do a little summary here:

Interested people atm are: Mekkah; iLL79; Bibby I guess but not for sure atm.; and :huh: of course me :rolleyes:

Myself I wish there would be some more people beeing keen into it :(

Now how about the definative lenght of the song? I guess 1 hour would be enough or not?
I also think now that a playtime for every part of 5 minutes would be great.

About the hosting:
No problem here if you can agree to my ideas.
I could add a subdomain to my own domain, set up a lil site (thinking about a php-based thingie, plus a artists-order list, maybe also a mailing list and with the ability to add some comments etc.)

I guess so far so good except the sample question. A pack would be good as already said. But how about the handling? Fact is that every composer is also mostly on “editing samples” which reaches to adding edited samples from the pack.
Bibby´s idea sounds potential here to avoid a chaos and a very big filesize but the other hand is that every composer is forced to use those sounds and is not allowed to do some little additions/edit or something when I got him right. :blink: Ideas??

I remeber that Parsec wanted to join too… Didn’t he??

I agree with you about hosting solution… :P

Samples edited by more than one composer is a problem we can’t fix, I guess… So, the first composer edits the samples and others use them without the chance to modify them… Or they could add the same sample in another instument bank position, edit it, and use it. But the samplepack could reach a very big size…

Don’t know… ;)

Right I think. :) So would everybody agree then if I say to hell with the filesize (even there could be a hell of slowness by tranfering the file/s) and let every composer add samples from the pack and let additionally edit them by his self?
I guess this would let give the composers some more creativity B)

Ok, how about a calendar…

set up a website where everyone subscribes, and every other day, one person will have to download the file so far, do their 4 or 5 patterns/minutes (and add what they like to the file, so long as it’s FREE, not gigantic and doesn’t require mammoth CPU power…?), and then upload the result for the next guy.

If you can’t be around on the date you’re given, you can ask to be put to the back of the queue or swap a day with someone.

We carry on with everyone adding their stuff, until we get to near the 1 hour limit, where whoever is “on duty” has to start winding down the track :slight_smile:

Who’s in?

Sounds nice but this one should code an other person than me, ´coz I´m not yet familirized with suscribing actions. This would be take myself to long (with my limited Coding-Exp. atm).
I would more prefer a little (i.e. like an easy guestbook) perl- or php- order-list where people (maybe limited to 12 persons if we take 5 minutes) can sign.

Nah, let´s see… :)

Pretty essential idea.
Agree with that. This should apply for EQ10 (guess this one is more useable then), Delay and Reverb I think. I think these would be the most common used DSP´s for it.
But I´m not sure about the filter because of it´s various filter sorts.
Additionally, to give the composer a easier start I think the composer before should stop or disable all effects at the end of his part or not?

Forgot something really important!!

In case some people missed it:

I started a poll and a thread about the genre we’re could be into then:

It’s in the Songforum.…cdfe034c131ad09

About the effects:

I figured that “filter” and/or “EQ 5” (instead of EQ10 which uses more cpu and isn’t needed quite so often) could be allowed for any track, since these are so useful, and also vary so much as the track progresses (unlike say, reverb - see below). The MoogLP filter seems good enough for 99% of stuff, and in the rare cases that you need something different, this can be added to a send track.

Reverb shouldn’t really be encouraged in individual tracks for 2 reasons:

  1. because tracks usually sound better when they “share” their reverb (adjust amount by controlling the ‘send’ level going into the reverb track) because then the instruments sound like they’re in the same room, rather than just drowning out the frequency spectrum with different reverbs. (you can always add several send tracks, all with your own unique reverb requirements if this doesn’t agree with you, or just change the reverb parameters left behind by the last guy when it gets to your own track ).

  2. cause it munches CPU! you should only need a few reverb channels - usually one or two as a pre-echo effect for fattening leads and stuff, and one tiny amount of reverb with a very small room size over the master to blend everything together nicely (which can probably be disabled until final mix anyway).

Question for the devlopers: If an effect is there, but disabled, does it still use CPU? Does it use a lot of CPU to dynamically turn it on during a pattern? ie, can we just throw millions of effects at this as long as we remember to turn them all off?

Who does the final mix??

well I’m not a ReNoise developer but can reply to this:
ReNoise’s built-in effects do not consume CPU when they are disabled;
moreover, they do not consume CPU where they have no signal into them.

could you explain which should be the main characteristics of such a reverb?
I mean short size, big dump, and so on…

Answers :D

Who does final mix?: Hey, I suppose everyone can make their own attempt, and we vote on the best?

Reverb: characteristics are dependent on the style of music, the instrument being reverberated, and the instruments it’s sharing a frequency spectrum with! That said, it doesn’t matter - in your patterns, just use commands to change the characteristics of a reverb effect left there by someone else! As long as the reverb effects are in send tracks, you can pick them and modify them for your own needs as you see fit.

If the reverb effects were pinned to audio tracks, this would be a bit more messy, and we’d end up juggling hundreds of effects on each track, which gets a bit confusing!

In contract, filter effects get changed so much in each pattern and for each track, that if we didn’t allow people to add this to each track, we’d end up with hundreds of send tracks (feeding into MORE send tracks), which would be just as messy!

I’m in!

I like this idea, what would be coolest would be lots of different styles though, because some people who would like to join this might not know how to compose music according to the style you might end up choosing… which will then produce, well… depending on the person composing; worse music than necessary :)

But like i said…
I’M IN!!!


I’m in too. B)

Agree to having some set rules, but I also think there should be some direction to be taken. As in; we should have a master plan, a theme! Just so the project don’t go flying everywhere and nowhere…

Also, if there’s a musical theme that repeats itself in various forms, like Goldie’s amazing “Mother” we might be going somewhere nice too. :)

And about the timeline, it might be interesting for two or three people who make the same style to do 2 minutes each and BAM send it to the next, but I think that when so many people participate we should allow people to finish some idea or route they are going. Unless they get stuck…

Bantai: agree with you, if it’s suitable to remix or improve past scores, the later artists should be allowed to do so. Tho this might start harsh arguments…

Or, we could send in somebody in between the actual progressional composing who can edit, remix and fix some of the scores/rythms etc?


You mean we could use a function like “Process Track Fx” right? But I guess there’s a very major problem but not for sure atm because I don’t use this feature very much… so am I right that every processed fx is running the same lenght as the sample is?? I guess it was so and especially for Reverbs this is a big problem because it get’s cutted then.

I like Giles’s sendtrack solution here. (especially for Reverbs!) I think we can do that. I also would suggest we should use “Delays” only with Send-Devices (it’s still easy to vary them after all I guess)

Yay, good idea! (This has a little compo feeling then :) )
mhhh… I guess it would be better to post the finals at the forum then (if the admin doesn’t hit us… Evention?) and then doing a poll again.
I could also move the songparts to my ftp but I guess there will be many ends and I’m normally allowed to kinda limited traffic (4GB per Month and after it, it costs much more for me)
gnn… dunno

by the way. When nothing disturbs me I think I’ve finished a proper website for the hosting til next weekend.


Wohoooo nice to see :)
About the genres. Well it seems the most people are going to vote for electronic and this is understandable because electronic has many subgenres itself let’s say from quite to hard. So I guess that problem is nothing or mhhhh… a minor one :rolleyes:

Good good good :) Nice to see that people are becoming interests :P
About the plan: Yes maybe all this has a bit messy startup but this is also why this thread is started: We’re still gathering some rules I think

I like electronic, even voted for it, so bring it on :D

A summary for the moment:

erm, correct me if I missed- or if you hate something (i.e. some things aren’t clearified) :o

  • Duration of the Song should be 1 hour (more or less)
  • Genre: Electronic (and everything it could fit into?)
  • Effect Usage: Reverbs (and maybe Delays?) stick into Send-Tracks
  • Final Mix: Could be voted!
  • Samplepack: Everyone can add the samples again and agian as he see’s fit.
  • Songhosting in the future: me
  • Interested people are (these are the guys who said: I’m in ;))
    Mekkah; Bibby; Dufey; Sagosen; iLL79; P.T;
    6 Artists so far. (wohooo I can still count :ph34r:)

- very potential candidates are because of their comments and knowledge sharing:

Bantai; It-Alien; Giles Contestant;

So please just say it if you want to take also a composing part :)

Still open questions:

  • How long should be a part. I guess it’s impossible to force a exact time but I would like to have aprox. 5 minutes. Could you life with that??
  • Samplepack Buildup? Maybe a samplepack with various stuff and also splitted into i.e. drums, bass, acids, strings etc.?
  • and many many more I forgot. (I have to write them down when I remember them agian :blink:)

Your opinions?