My Problems With Multitap Delay

I just discovered the multitap delay effect only now. For some reason I completely missed it in alpha, although delay is one of my favourite effects of all time.

Unfortunately this one lacks some features which make it hard to use for me and not a really good replacement for TAL dub or similar plugins.

  1. There is only one filter. Because of this it’s impossible to create those DJ style delays you hear in every dance music track. Closest thing you can do is use the Bandpass filter, but there is only a single Q setting that has the desired effect, which doesn’t leave any room to control both high and low cut. On other settings of Q the rolloff is either too steep, or too wide. The delay could really need two filters for low and high cut, cause this tweakability is really important for mixing. Maybe have another filter type “Dual” where Q controls the other filter instead?

  2. The feedback goes up to just 100%, some specific effects, like the one used on ragga vocals requires feedback to go up to 200%.

I hope it’s not too late to make these changes. :(

The filter feedback amount and the delay feedback amounts can get that self-oscillating effect you refer to you have them both up very high for the specific tap. You can get that classic dub echo sound with the bandpass filter, just be careful of the mid point and Q and you can get the high and low cut anywhere. To my ears the filter slopes are very usable for this application, and hey one plug is never gonna do it all. Keep your fav dub echo plugins in your arsenal.

Yes, but changing the Q also dramatically changes the filter slope which I’d prefer to stay constant. Tweaking the dub delay to shine through and not destroy the mix is bitch as is, it’s even harder to do with a single bandpass filter.

I was kinda hoping I could use renoise internal effects more, but I guess I have to stick to my current plugin arsenal for now.

i know that this specific implementation could not please everyone, and the delay/feedback matter is a universe on its own.

  1. i can consider implementing a dual filter for this purpose, but i will need some time in order to keep both filters stable when introduced in the feedback path (it’s really a tough job). can’t promise anything for now, i would like to stabilize this and smash all possible artifacts and bugs before.

  2. well, will 200% means increase volume of the feedback by 2x ? it will all of a sudden become unstable, especially with sharp filters, and you may need to adjust levels all of the time. not so practical in my opinion.
    All of the work i’ve done in this regard was trying to keep the device manageable, and harder to lose (even the skull will help in that case).

Actually, I also expected something which would be a lot harder to manage - the way you initially described the MTDelay it sounded like it would rapidly turn into a cascading feedback which would destroy my monitors in no time. And although it’s nice to have that skull - just in case - I never actually have had any need to use it thus far - so I guess I’m with Suva on the “more prominent feedback” bandwagon.

As for the device being manageable, perhaps these ideas fall well beyond the scope of what’s realistic for the beta, but…I would really like to see some sort of “combined editing mode”.
Basically, you would select multiple taps, and tweak their settings on a relative basis. Then you could tweak the “global delay amount”, or “global feedback” etc…

No worries though, I’m perfectly happy setting up a couple of Hydra’s to achieve this here & now (well, in fact that approach is superior in many ways).

^ i was hoping the skull would set ‘death mode’, where you’d have to go to great lengths to protect your monitors and ears, like a balancing act. alas.

Are you really sure ?

It took me some months to keep the beast under control. And as i live player and feedback lover, i prefer to have a multitap perfectly under control, instead of having something that i can lose and f**k my whole gig if i don’t pay much attention (even a 0.001% of resonance more can lead to destruction). The art of keeping feedback stable is a two sword axes… or better is the paradox of the too short blanket, you’ll never be covered completely one side and the other.

This is an interesting idea. Actually a “master” section is something i already feel we need: nothing particularly complex, but a way to relatively control each tap with a single slider.

OK, fair enough. 0.001% is not much (we are the 99.999%!!). The most important thing is that it sounds awesome.

if I had to choose, a global section would be my choice then. MTDelay is a bit overwhelming if you want to do a quick adjustment ATM. And while setting up Hydra’s is powerful, it also requires that you plan ahead. With some cleverly implemented global controls, the tweakability factor could become much higher :slight_smile:

the skull does one thing i don’t like:
Toggle the preset’s change notification even when nothing really got changed in a preset.

I noticed that too; it looks like a bug to me. Presumably the “preset modified” flag is being set for every interaction with a control in the DSP, but the skull is unusual because it doesn’t actually make a change to the preset.

mmmh. tricky one, i supposed that parameter shouldn’t do like this (and never gave much attention to it ).

I 'm having some troubles here too , especially with the high pass filter …;when the overdrive is enble and some modest amount of feedbak …the filter behaviour ( espiacially the high pass ) produces crackles and zips …once the filter goes into overdrive …a lot of high freq material is introduced ( above 10 khz ) and there is no way to get rid of it …except the kill button

please provide an example.

if you use the overdrive you are actually crushing all your feedback, which will grow more and more crushing, creating lot of harmonics from already created harmonics. this is normal, you should try by lowering the feedback or the overdrive.