My Problems With Renoise And The Keyboard

This is spectacular! Truly! Weird! and spectacular! Stellar! Thank you VERY much for your work on these issues!

Oh, wow! Good to be wrong here. I found the Disk Browser favorites now that I knew where to look, but where are the global(?) 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 -button bindings?

KMaki, I don’t think it would have happened if you hadn’t collected them together like this. So mad kudos to you & sharevari

You’ll find them under Global/View/Recall View Preset x.

I’ve remapped these away from the global view presets myself. :)

Heh. Okay, I didn’t get your meaning on the previous post. I actually knew about the global view presets, but I thought you meant the buttons under, say, automation graph were also keybindable. :)

Having ExpCurve as a keybind would be amazin. - gave up on tryin to script it myself, too weird

Yeah sorry, those are still missing. How desperate are you to have them?

Preferences -> Keys -> Automation -> Generate -> Create Exp Ramp

amazing. thanks kazakore. i don’t know how i mi… no, wait, i was trying to make a script that would create exp ramp to volume, without me having to access automation editor at all. that’s probably why i had so many issues with it. was trying to make it be a context menu in pattern editor, shortcut in pattern editor, and context menu entry in pattern matrix and a shortcut in the pattern matrix.

Put in your lowest value, your highest value, highlight then do:

Right-Click -> Selection -> Interpolate Exponential.

Which you can set a keyboard shortcut for too (none as default I think.)

Will also do Pan unless you have it unchecked in Advanced Edit, which you might not want though. Unless you are using Pattern Commands, as you can select these separately.

The right answer to get these would probably be “really desperate”. But, alas, I cannot give such answer. I’m not sure about anyone else, but on a fast glance over the forums, I could not find any topics about missing this feature. It’s something I consider ‘essential in order to be a truly keyboard friendly application’, but I can certainly live with not having them yet. And while I truly respect the effort here, I also hope this keyboard crusade won’t take away too much time on expense of other stuff. Probably not.

we’re not talking of the same thing here. was working on a script that added “exp-curve-to-volume” (and to nothing else) to pattern matrix and pattern editor. i don’t use automation for anything else (honest with a capital H). all this that you are describing is possible if

  1. you use automation editor
  2. you use mouse.
    i threw both of those (the 1) and the 2) ) out the window and just tried to figure out a method of creating an exp curve vol (<- vol!) to currently_selected_track. couldn’t do it, since the first thing you automate, is automation[1], and there’s no automation[volume] , or at least i couldn’t understand how.
    this isn’t about changing the volume column of the pattern editor either, it’s about keeping the volume column “as is” and mapping a fade-vol-curve-in fade-vol-curve-out onto that track.

Wrong on both count!

0Lxx command? Apart from I’m not clear exactly which parameter you are trying to make exponential it is perfectly possible.

Don’t tell me I’m wrong when you obviously don’t understand what I mean.

I have a song. I have a pattern. This pattern has a track. This track has notes. This track has pattern effect commands. This track has volume column commands. This track has delay column commands. This track has pan column commands.
This, track, needs, to, be, faded, in. With one keyboard shortcut. No, this keyboard shortcut does not interpolate volume column commands - the volume column commands are not touched. no, this keyboard shortcut does not do 0L00 or any of that toss, the effect columns are not altered. What this shortcut does, is

  • Create an Automation envelope for this track, for this pattern. This automation envelope is for Volume. I’m talking about the Pan/Vol/Delay in the Track DSP view.
  • This Automation envelope for Volume of the track, has an Exponential Curve. When you play back this pattern, it starts fading in the sound that is playing in the track. Still with me?

No mouse is used. No Automation Envelope Editor is opened. No Cursor focus is placed on Automation Envelope Editor. Therefore, No Automation Envelope Editor shortcut for creating an Exponential Curve can be used.

Throw that mouse out. Throw that Automation envelope view out. How do you fade in something, with one shortcut, from within the Pattern Matrix or within the Pattern Editor? You don’t.

When I say ExpCurveVol I mean this:
Exp(onential)Curve on Volume! Volume Automation. Not anything else. ExpCurveVol is a global shortcut, which writes “volume fade in (which IS what ExpCurve IS!)” to the current track’s automation envelope editor, without 1) usage of mouse 2) usage of automation envelope editor 3) clicking around 4) cursor-focus on automation envelope editor.

If you respond with bs again i will blow my fuse and i will start screaming and fucking beating the table with my two fists and I will respond in full caps.

Edit: I do not know what kind of mouse-psychosis you are in if you think that there is a keyboard shortcut that can be used to:

  1. Click Automation Envelope Editor open
  2. Select Volume
  3. Click on Exponential Curve -icon /// OR /// rightmousebutton on Automation and select Exponential Curve from Process->Create Exponential Curve.

All I wanted to do was press one key and the exponential curve is put to Volume. Get it? Good.

The difference in this is: You click once, twice, thrice, four times. OR. you press the keyboard shortcut once. Don’t tell me that 4 mouse clicks + moving the mouse around is better than one keyboard shortcut. If you tell me that 4 mouse clicks and mousemoving is better than one keyboard shortcut, or one clickable-context-menu-entry within Pattern Matrix for selected pattern-slot… (as, once this kind of a feature exists as a keyboard shortcut, I’ll of course slam it into the pattern editor context menu and pattern matrix context menu), then we have nothing to discuss.

Check yourself! You tell me what I am describing relies on 1. using automation and 2. using the mouse. Both of which were false! You are the one who should not try and tell other people what they are trying to say when you clearly don’t understand!

So you go from saying not using the Automation curves to saying in fact that is exactly where you do want it written!

You do know that the 0Lxx command is the EXACT SAME PARAMETER as the Volume in the Automation window do you not? Admitedly with much more accuracy.

All the information you provided me with was “i was trying to make a script that would create exp ramp to volume” I’m afraid I’m not a mind-reader and thus I can’t answer using bits of information you haven’t supplied to me. What you ask for these is perfectly possible and easy with the keyboard only within the Pattern Editor. Although admitedly to need to put start and end values so a couple of extra key presses are needed.

I look forward to it!

There is a gigantic difference between using the mouse to open automation envelope editor, then using the mouse to select Volume, then using the mouse to click on process->create exponential curve to this Volume-automation, and simply pressing a key to directly create an exponential curve to Volume. One requires you to switch from “pattern editor”-mode, to “mouse-moving-mode” then to “automation editor mode” then to “pick the automatable parameter”-mode, then to “let’s put in an exponential curve to this automatable parameter i’ve selected”-mode. What I’m proposing is staying in pattern-editor-mode, and slamming an exp-curve to the automatable parameter called Volume.
Read my edit to my post which you replied to.

It relies on clicking on automation envelope editor. -> using automation. it relies on clicking -> using the mouse. you can’t create an exponential curve on Volume (in automation), without using the mouse to tick the box to select Volume. You can’t create an exponential curve on Volume, without then clicking with the mouse to select Process -> Exponential Curve.

You’re telling me to use the mouse. I’m telling you I don’t want to. Simple enough for you?
No amount of “hey esa, first click on Automation Envelope Editor. Then click on Volume. Then click to focus cursor on Automation envelope editor. Then press CreateExponentialCurve shortcut” translates to “no using of mouse”. use your noodle.

Simple: Not using the automation editor but adding an automation curve to automatable parameter Volume. Without…using…the…mouse.

We were talking about Exponential Curve. In Automation. You already said that there’s a shortcut for it. Read what I wrote, it’s not so difficult.
You told me to use a shortcut which is Automation envelope editor-specific “create exponential curve”. I told you "hey, that’s cool NO WAIT that’s not cool, I want to create exponential curve to specific automation envelope parameter, which is called Volume.

Bullshit, and I don’t care. 0L00 is effect column, not Automation Parameter: Volume. nothing in the pattern editor is touched!

Again, maintain context or die by the sword. We were talking about automation envelope editor exp curve. Since it’s no point talking about Process->Create Exponential Curve, instead we use ExpCurve to talk about automation envelope editor exponential curve. ExpCurveVol is automation envelope editor exponential curve on automatable parameter Volume. How many times? does? this? have? to? be? explained? to? you?

Of course you’re not a mindreader, you’re not even capable of reading stuff in context.
Nothing in this is “perfectly possible and easy with the keyboard within the pattern editor”, because there is no shortcut within the pattern editor to

  1. tick Automatable Parameter Volume
  2. create exponential curve to automatable parameter volume.

Don’t tell me it is, if it isn’t. Don’t lie to me.
do not fucking lie to me.

Can be done with keyboard. I use Sift+Alt+A to get to Automation (takes you to the parameter list) but this isn’t default so you might have to use Alt+Tab. Down to Vol. Alt+Tab to take you into main Automation window. Enter to add a point as Exp wont work without it, then Ctrl+Alt+E to put in the Ramp (again I’ve assign, no default.)

I can see why this is a pain but it is possible.

Fair enough a script to do this all could be quite handy. But the information you originally supplied didn’t make any of this clear (IE focus being in one area, wanting to generate in another etc.) But you still don’t need to touch the mouse to enter anything in Automation!

Fair enough, if you want to call pressing 5 (or more) key shortcuts to accomplish something, “possible with keyboard”. again, the end-user has to visually notice where the cursor now is, which segment of the screen is highlighted, and if the shortcuts even work (if you even remembered them.)

So if you wish to turn from “don’t use mouse, instead use one shortcut” to “don’t use 5 shortcuts, one shortcut instead”, that’s fine with me. But basically the user’s concentration is being forced to jump through hoops to accomplish a very simple thing (fade in in automation). And what if this is a quick thing to do, instead of a “hey, i gotta stop tracking now. Let me just open that lowerframe with a shortcut. Let me just display Automation envelope editor. Let me just move cursor focus to automation envelope editor. Let me just press keys to select Volume. Let me just tick the volume-box with a key. Let me just use a shortcut to get to the automation envelope display. Let me just create an exponential curve. Let me hide lower frame. Let me return cursor focus to pattern editor”. As YOU YOURSELF admit (while you bullheadedly demand my acceptance that “yes, MULTIPLE keyboard shortcuts can be used to accomplish this”), it is clunky, slow, and requires the splitting of attention from the song to maneuver around the GUI.

So let’s just rephrase one … more … time.
Cursor Focus on Pattern Editor.
Press a keyboard shortcut.
Cursor Focus is still on Pattern Editor, but Automation Envelope Editor now has “Volume” Parameter Ticked, and Volume Parameter has Exponential Curve in it.

The exponential curve to automation parameter Volume is created, without 1) lower frame being displayed 2) without automation envelope editor being displayed.

And again, this shortcut can then be called from Pattern Matrix (select one track-slot, rightclick, select ExpCurveVol ((We ARE still talking about exponential curve, in automation editor, to volume, just making sure that we are both on the same page, i.e., on the same context… justtrying to make it certain that i didn’t lose you here)) and bang, the selected-track-slot has a volume fade in in the automation editor.

Sorry my mate came through the door with beers just as I started writing that last reply.

This thread is about shortcoming in keyboard operation.

You come with a request for a keyboard shortcut. I show you that it in fact already exists.

You then say you actually want to easily be able to do fade in/out. I point you towards a way of doing so with very few key presses in the Pattern Editor.

You then complain that you don’t want to do it like that and that you want a single shortcut from the Pattern Editor or the Matrix to do so via writing in the Automation envelopes.

May I remind you this is a thread about shortcomings of current keyboard operation and thus shortcuts that may be reasonable expected to be seen are welcomed to be discussed. Ones that write to the a specific parameter in Automation from other areas of Renoise I’m afraid fall far outside of that premise and don’t belong in this thread!

Yet you accuse me of reading things out of context and not understanding what should of been obvious. How about you keep to what is reasonable within this thread?

So you refuse to use the method pointed out to you, which not only requires far fewer keypresses it is also far more flexible (with the Automation Exponential Curve you always go from min to max) meaning you can actually stop the fade at 0dB, rather than +3dB.
Then you specifically say it’s not possible to do it without clicking on the mouse:

To which I show you it is in fact possible, even if not amazing easy, but as I mentioned above writing into Automation from other areas, where Auotmation may not even be visible is not something that should really be made native anyway and as such has no place in this thread. Already think it’s weird right-clicking parameters can do it, even if Edit Mode is Off!

another item for this section:

Must use mouse to cycle MIDI programs. I can mouse click or select with mouse and scroll with mouse wheel but I can not arrow up/down through programs. The same w/ VST/DSSI instrument preset selector. It’d be nice to be able to arrow up/down through those instead of using a mouse.