NoteOff VS. HOLD

i think for all VSTi and MIDI purposes we need another NoteOff handling …

my suggestion stolen from MED … but i think it’s better handled in MED

in MED there is no NoteOff in pattern … only a hold-symbol is possible if you set an note-duration

like this:

A-3 01
-|- 01
-|- 01


A-3 01
-|- 01
-|- 01


A-3 01


A-3 01


the vertical-bar makes note hold … possible to insert with ENTER or another free definable key (like a note itself) … if there is no vertical bar or the after the last bar, noteoff takes effect … (& if no instrument-duration is set … the bar is useless and have no function)

&

(developers: NoteDuration for VSTi is really needet - like in the midi-instr.settings!!!)

cheers, Alex

I dont see the advantage of using “hold notes” instead of a noteoff. Tell me if there is one.

I agree, that we also need a default duration (autonoteoff) setting for vsti’s.

the advantage is that noteoff is a little bit complicated (if u use it often) than a “hold-note” … and hold is more intuitive and is more like a professional sequencer-work (e.g. in pianoroll sequencers u set the “duration” with the lenght of a horizontal-note-bar - not a noteoff bar … or keyboards have no noteoff-pedal but a hold-pedal!!!) … generally hold-symbol like in MED gives a better overview in the pattern!

i’m using a lot of natural sampler-sounds (strings, piano, acousitc-bass … and so on) … if i can use e.g. ENTER for instering the hold after i entered the note it’s really more simple …

maybe nobody can understand this if he never used a lot of midi or vsti … or a lot of different note-durations (hold) … or MED ;) … it’s a real advantage … believe me :rolleyes:

I agree with alex ;) I think the biggest advantage is that it is much more visual. You get a much better overview on where notes is playing and where they are released… For example think about a note that is pressed on one pattern and then is hold for let us say 3 patterns, with note off you only see an empty track on the middle pattern, but if you use the hold-method that alex is explaining you will acctually see that a note is pressed even on the middle pattern…

This was the most stupid thing I ever heard… This has nothing to do with Cubase at all… You probably (obviously) don’t even understand what it is all about…

I mainly use Renoise because it is the only good tracker that can handle both samples, MIDI and VST very good… and as Alex is saying, the hold-method is much better than Note off when you work with MIDI and VST…

Just turn off hold for the instrument and it work exactly the same as you are used to… If you don’t want it, just don’t use it… exactly the same as for all features…

Please come with something constructive next time, please…

If you want a tracker without new features, why don’t you just go back to your ol nice FT2? just, whatever you do, please give me a break

And why do you just have to call yourself Guest_guest??? Are you afraid of something ;)

to make the easy handling more easy i suggested HOLD … the NoteOff must not be replaced … both features should be implemented i think … the use of hold or noteoff could be an option like the pitch-handling …

if this feature would go under WIP votation, I don’t think it will be voted…

people who use trackers, I think, have no difficulties in knowing when a note is holding and when it has been turned off.

Personally, I would find a pattern filled of vertical bars much less readable then a pattern with note offs.

I agree that ReNoise is here to revolve the concept of trackers, but in my opinion note off are just the way they should be.

If pro-sequencers work the other way, this doesn’t necessarily mean that it is the best solution for a tracker.

i think it’s an attitude “PLEASE NO NEW FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES” for creating musik with trackers …

i think it’s like in other interesting suggestions that leave the old Fasttracker-way … the old tracker-user who using only samples over the years have their principles … but i think this shouldn’t be the way of Renoise …

and like i said: it should be a option … people who accustomed notoff can use noteoff … the others maybe HOLD

i think in combination with piano-roll HOLD is advantage - also for the coders … maybe

IT: fight the prejudices … open your eyes for new ideas, far away from your wishes & suggestions … or please say nothing - it’s not the question that u think that it not will be voted … at the moment we can’t vote for anything … and everybody can tell his ideas - i think the developers are grateful for all good ideas … because not only of the music tracker revolution - because of the music CREATING revolution that’s named: RENOISE

cheers, Alex

alex,
I didn’t want to have no respect for this idea: I’ve just expressed my feeling about it.

This forum section is here to discuss new ideas, so I had to add my EuroCents (more valuable than the old $$ as of now :rolleyes:) to it, and I don’t think my point of view is unique.

I think that saying
“play this note until you find a Note Off”
makes more sense than
“play this note and hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, …”
from a tracker point of view.

anyway, when WIP voting will be on, I won’t vote for this ;) :lol: :drummer:

The funny thing is that this feature was introduced in a tracker that was released as early as 1991. ;) In the best and most advanced tracker ever released on the Amiga-platform… So it is realy not a very new feature to the trackerworld…
And it would realy not be a very hard and fundamental thing to implement either… you can even keep the old note off and still have the possibility to chose hold if you want to…
I think it is realy sad that the most people here in the discussion-forum just want renoise to be as close to the old boring fasttracker2 as possible ;) Isn’t it better to take the best things out of all good old trackers and put them together to a good and universial solution that fits everyone… I realy think the Renoise-team would be very glad if more than just old hardcore fasttracker-users would use their program ;) or am I wrong? they may maybe even be glad if they could tempt some old sequencer guys to convert to the tracker-world… what do I know ? ;)
My personal view is that hold is a much more intuitive way to work when you use MIDI and VST… and note off could be good for “inline” samples… and renoise support both MIDI,VST and inline samples so why not support both hold and note off???

That would require scanning back through the previous patterns to look for unfinished notes. The outcome of this would be dependent of where in the song the pattern is positioned, and a pattern used multiple places would look different.

Also, noteon/noteoff is the way midi and vsti’s work. And surely entering note holds in multiple rows is a lot more work than entering one noteoff? (or have I misunderstood?) So I don’t agree with you here.

But maybe some kind of (optional) color highlighting of the parts of the notecolumns where a note is playing would solve this?

Anyway, when the piano roll is finished (I’ve got to stop writing posts and get working on it instead…) you can use it to get this overview.

You don’t have to do any backscanning. Just like this: If a note is playing and the next row in the column is “-|-” the note will hold. If you put a “-|-” alone it would not effect anthing, just be as meningless as two note off’s after eachothers…

Yes but so do note offs if they are used in differend patterns than the note begun… ;)

Yes, technically also MIDI use note offs. But when you for example play on a keyboard you think about a keypress as a holddown of a key so In mind this is much more logic ;)
As Alex said before, you will probably not understand the advantage of this till you use it yourself…

No it is infact not more work. Think about it in this way:
You want to play a note and then sustain it for 3 rows.
In the note off case:
You first press the note, for example E-4, then you press the down arrow 3 times and then Caps Lock. Done.
In the hold case:
You first press the note, for example E-4, then you press Return 3 times. Done.

less work ;)

Why not support both this ways ;)

  
E-3 E-3  
-|- ---  
-|- ---  
-|- ---  
-|- ---   
--- note off  
  

:D please :)

You want to play a note and then sustain it for 20 rows.
In the note off case:
You first press the note, for example E-4, then you press pg-down once, down-arrow 3 times, and then Caps Lock. Done.
In the hold case:
panic

I WAS an hardcore FT2 user until ReNoise 1.1 came out and I will support any changes from FT2 style that I consider useful.

are future users of Renoise midi-coder OR musicians?

noteon/noteoff is a midi-command and a internal way of trans/reciev. but hold is the logical way for musicians … like twilek and me said

please think twice

i don’t agree with IT

the suggested hold-system is one keystroke less than with noteoff:

entering the note + e.g. 20 times of hold (e.g. press enter) = ready

vs.

entering the note + e.g. 20 times scroll down + caps-lock = ready

(note entering + scrolling + caps-lock > is more panic!!!)

— believe us! (twilek + me) it’s a good alternative and a good idea!!! —

is panic all that u can imagine IT … think about it … hold is no panic - u can saving one keystroke!

like this idea. why not making an option “visualize notelength of MIDI and VST instruments”. Even samples could be visualized like that by checking if a loop is set or checking at wich row the sample will end.
This way you join the advantages of both ways : making the length of each note visible and keep the easy way of entering note-offs.

The internal structure will still store it as noteon/off anyway,
so this feature has two sides: visual and keyboard input.
The visual part is simply some extra highlighting and/or line drawing.

What you request is a new shortcut key (lets call it “the key”) that lengthens the playing note in a column to the current row. But what about this:

  1. the key is pressed
  2. renoise inserts a noteoff at this row
  3. renoise scans backwards for a noteon or noteoff.
    If it finds:
    a) a noteon - then it scans forward and deletes an eventual lonely useless noteoff.
    B) a noteoff - then the found noteoff is deleted
  4. the cursor jumps one editstep forward.

In short, a “smart” noteoff button which deletes the old noteoff for the current note.
So:

  1. Insert a note “C-5” - cursor jumps one editstep forward
  2. press the “smart” noteoff 3 times - a noteoff is inserted each time,
    but the old one is deleted so the net result is the same as your “hold” key.

I think this will solve your problem, and now I agree this will be quite useful. And I’ll need this extra functionality for the pianoroll anyway.

This is a “b” and a “)” :P

this compromise is’nt bad … (nearly the same usability like the hold key i suggested) …

:) :P :rolleyes: :) :) :) … please please add this feature!

I join in the chant :D