He is not just a loser, he is a clown who is so ignorant to a point to be entertaining.
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Too bad i found this topic so late.
Ah yeah, i know that guy very well. He’s a big troll. He does it all the time in the KVR forums.
This is just a poor boy who has no friends. Maybe also too little love from his parents as kid.
He always crashes topics on KVR to start his own personal wars.
But on the other side, the KVR forums have become very toxic nowadays. Lots of trolls there. That’s why i’m not visiting the forums there anymore…
Same here. Started in 1992, also at the age of 14 with an Amiga 500.
Then i got an A600, and later an A1200, that i still have and still use for lo-fi sampling.
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A tracker is tracker period yes, but trackers can have piano roll in them.
damn what a time saver. I just learned it after years via your post answer thanks 
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Don’t understand how piano roll would benefit Renoise. Isn’t the selling point of Renoise that it primarily uses a tracker? Any energy/funds/time/consideration that could go to having some piano roll feature would be better spent improving other features I think. Other DAWs have workflows designed around the piano roll, Renoise doesn’t seem that way. As for trackers in comparison to piano roll in general, it’s up to personal taste, which I think is what OP was trying to say. I don’t think he was “controlling the forum for his narrative”, just expressing his opinion, and I think most Renoise users would agree to be honest. Anyways, you can disagree, I don’t think there’s a need to be mean about it. He was just sharing his opinion, I think in a pretty civil way
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Same here… Amiga 1200 , Protracker, noisetracker, buzz etc… an than 20 years break with trackers. I am glad that Renoise is still is use and had updates.
Anyway that idea see waves next to track is a good thing.
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Boredom? Then read the other 2 closed long threads which are needed to understand the entire pianoroll thematics! Maybe you will understand then… or not. In my opinion this thread was only created to open a new secondary theater of war in a running discusion. Furthermore, everything that needed to be said was said. If you think I’m mean or a bad person because of that, there’s nothing I can do about it.
happy tracking 
Oi!!!are you still going on about the piano roll,you better not be or else it’s smacky bum bum time 
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I think there are new versions of pianoroll tools coming soon, supporting API version 6.2, which has a lot of GUI related improvements (resizing, speed, mouse position tracking). So I guess in some time you will have your desired pianoroll view…? Also Raul recently already updated his tool. Am never using pianoroll tools, but isn’t that exactly what you need then?
And without the the Gen-X the computer world wouldn’t be what it is today. Not only music related. Also the gaming industry couldn’t evolve to what it is today. This generation was the “game changer” in terms of the computer world. Because it was new, exciting and all the “nerds” back in the days tried to get the most out they could of the limited capacities.
People had to be creative to get the most out of their system.
Nowadays creativity isn’t as important as back in the days becaus of all these little tools like pre-defined scales, one-note chord/melody generators, pitch correction tools, AI tools etc. You don’t have to learn music/harmony theory anymore because all these little cheating tools do that job for you. That’s why creativity is dying more and more nowadays.
And btw, my dear boys and girls, all these tools you use nowadays like Cubase, Ableton, Logic, FL Studio, Reason, etc were invented by these Gen-X people…
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Not a gen X, but I also agree because they are why demoscene exists which defines all the computer graphics and audio stuff.
People really have that good focus and attention back in the days to figure out all the stuff. The possible distraction were really just some TV shows, but they were much less stimulating and much more meaningful than those short form videos.
These days? We now have that black rectangle constantly spamming information and stimulation, and everything are becoming “urgent” and “doomed” which they are not suppose to. At worst, I have even seen some Reddit users being so proud of their addiction where they nearly spend half of the day browsing their phone… Meanwhile, people just want to have shortcut without caring to learn. Tell an IT student to write a simple python code? ChatGPT all the way down and don’t care how it works.
Even as a Gen Z, I really fed up many people are so hooked to a point they watch their phone even walking on streets, and losing the mindset of trying to learn and even expertise something, but want success immediately. There are exceptions, of course, but they are really the minority these days.
For me, it stills matters. I don’t like silly dance with some catchy upbeat tone or some pure CGI lumped with some product placement calling it a movie, and this is the reason why I have lost interest in most of the trendy contents these days. The music I like the most are those people who put their heart into their music or their artwork with a sense of story telling.
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@jampsu
I’m a late Gen-X (1978) and my brother is an early Gen-X (1968).
But without my brother i never would have started making my own music and i never would have started developing my own VST plugins.
Back in the days he came home after visiting his best friend with a bunch of new Amiga disks he got from his buddy. That friend was a well known Amiga cracker back in the days in Germany.
My brother gave me some disks and said that may be interesting for me. It was the very first tracker software i’ve seen in my life, called Protracker.
I gave it a try, and baaaam! i was in. I was so overwhelmed by this little piece of software. Later i got other trackers like OktaMED, Ultimate Sound Tracker and Octalyzer. Thanks to my bro for making me a tracker nerd!
Then, in late 90s i started buying my first hardware synths like Roland D-50 (my very first one), Korg M1, a TR-808, a bit later i bought the TR-909 from a friend who needed money.
In 1996/1997 a new synthesizer was released, that mashed up the trance music scene of that time. It was the Roland JP-8000. I saved up my money and bought one. That was my start into making trance music. I still have all these synths today in my modest studio.
Later, in early/mid 2000s i discovered the first music software i ever used on a PC, called Propellerhead Reason. I was again overwhelmed what you now can do with software and i completely switched from Amiga to PC. Later i got Ableton Live which i used until 2008 or so, then started using FL Studio for a short time but i didn’t like it and switched back to Ableton.
I also still have my Amiga 1200 and still use it for lo-fi sampling.
In 2015 i found an article in a German music magazine where they talked about Renoise. I thought by myself “cool, a modern tracker for my PC!” and tried the demo for some days.
I immediately bought a license and use Renoise until today as my first choice. Then Bitwig came and i bought it, but i never got used to it. I also often switch back to Ableton for certain things. But i always jump back to Renoise where i’m able to be more creative than i ever was in Ableton. I never got a track finished in Ableton. But in Renoise i made a lot fully finished songs.
Now i’m using Ableton Live, Reason and Bitwig only for testing my own developed VST plugins. But when it comes to creativity, Renoise is my first choice.
I even still edit and manipulate samples the old way. I do it all manually without any special software. Even if i clean up samples to eliminate crackles, fill gaps, combine different samples to one single sample, etc, i do it all by hand without any algorithms.
Maybe this is a bit like “stone-age” editing. But this is my preferred method that works best for my purposes.
Edit: another thing i do manually is bpm detection of a sample. I don’t need any bpm detection tools for that. The only things i need is the Renoise sampler, a bit of math and a simple calculator as i did it back in the days where such detecting tools were not available. Just give me any sample with any length and i can exactly calculate what bpm it has. Even if it has a bpm tempo that contains decimal values or if it is in an exotic time signature.
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Well said!
Exactly!
Try and error and some time and effort is all you need. That’s how I’ve learned to handle everything about music. Especially back in the days on SoundTracker.
That’s the only proper way to do it.
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It’s a time consuming process editing samples the oldschool way, i know. But in the end that effort will give you better results than any algorithm out there.
Maybe we should start a new topic where we “oldschoolers” can show how good the oldschool ways of sample editing still are sounding. I think more of a tutorial topic or so.
I also always must laugh when people are claiming old software or systems like the Amiga and that they’re outdated and ancient.
But then everyone who is claiming wants to use software that emulates all these “outdated and ancient” systems to get that oldschool feeling in their music.
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lol. 
Writing on a real Amiga with Protracker or Oktalyzer is still amazing! For example: I use an Amiga 500 with kick 3.1 and IDE HDD support (IDE68K with 8 MB fastRAM). Oktalyzer can run six channels with this configuration. 2 channels more than in Protracker.
The software emulation gives me not the real feeling, and it’s not the same. The hardware ‘emulation’ (mist/mister) is nice, but also not the real Amiga. Nothing beats the original.
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Amiga sound is more ore less “tape” quality
I know that feeling. And today, if I see some reactions on the socials from the kids, like they complaining they cannot get that status like an EDM DJ/Producer, or they ask where they can find a course to learn to be a producer, it feels like so sorry for them.
Of course, nothing wrong with asking howto. They must somewhere start. But in ‘my time’ my behavior was like: Ok, I found out myself how get this stuff work! And yes, with some friends around me who are also into that stuff, you can learn a lot from each other.
For me it started also in the ‘90’s with the Amiga 500 with Protracker. It is all about the simplicity and workflow.
The intuitive interface in Protracker was amazing. Also the same for OctaMED, Oktalyzer, etc. I came in contact of course, with some modern DAWS later in the millennium, but it’s not gonna happen.
The only thing maybe is the combination of Renoise with Cubase / Redux. So, writing the stuff in Renoise, and mixing it in Cubase to get the production to a higher level.
The advice I give to the newbies and youngsters will be: try something like Protracker, or OctaMED! Just to experience the workflow! And something more…. (* limitations).
Today you can run the old style Protracker on any Windows and MAC systems, look at the website of 8bitsbubsy, 16-bits.org
Very cool and amazing, also Fasttracker is supported, and you can run this all over again. Flashback to the ‘90s again!
- about the limitations: Important for the youth, because all the basic stuff is there. With all the limitations also, that is good for more creativity. Because nowadays the modern DAW have too much possibilities. And that can kill creativity in my opinion!
So, yes, let us being ‘boomers’. Lol. 
But if you are from the 70’s, like me, they call it generation X? Because boomers (1946-1964) were my parents, born after WW2.
Cheers mate!