Was comparing the sound of the old native envelope filters vs the new ones the other day because i felt that some of the old snare tricks i use sounded a bit flat and had much less ‘bite’ I was very surprised by the difference in sound,IMO the old filters sound much better,the new ones in comparison sound a good bit more flat,flimsy,watery and transparent,the old ones have much more presence,character and bite,by as i say a surprising amount.I don’t think I’ve heard anyone talk about this before which is strange considering the difference in sound between the two.Anybody else a/b between them before,if you haven’t you should check it out.Anybody else find anything that has in their opinion suffered in regards to sound?
Personally, I like both the new and the old ones (my favourite is the K35).
But it’s definitely true that while the newer filters are technically superior, they also have a different character.
One thing to be aware of is that many of the newer filters have different slopes - you will notice this if you ‘upgrade’ an instrument using the old filter. Often, you will have to adjust e.g. the cutoff frequency, because they are simply not 1:1 compatible with the old ones. Usually, with a bit of tweaking, you will find a setting which is reasonably close.
Some filters are just too different, though - for example, the newer bandpass is not able to open up nearly as much as the old one.
When it comes to adding presence, a trick I often use is to add a bit of drive. It’s very useful for bringing out additional harmonics in the sound, and can be used almost as a separate “amplitude” (controlling the level of a highly resonant sound).
Personally, I like both the new and the old ones (my favourite is the K35).
But it’s definitely true that while the newer filters are technically superior, they also have a different character.
One thing to be aware of is that many of the newer filters have different slopes - you will notice this if you ‘upgrade’ an instrument using the old filter. Often, you will have to adjust e.g. the cutoff frequency, because they are simply not 1:1 compatible with the old ones. Usually, with a bit of tweaking, you will find a setting which is reasonably close.
Some filters are just too different, though - for example, the newer bandpass is not able to open up nearly as much as the old one.
When it comes to adding presence, a trick I often use is to add a bit of drive. It’s very useful for bringing out additional harmonics in the sound, and can be used almost as a separate “amplitude” (controlling the level of a highly resonant sound).
Yeah i did notice that,its immediately apparent when u a/b them.I also like some of the new filters,i guess I’m wondering why get rid of the old ones?would love to have them alongside the new batch.Yeah i use drive all the time,rare that i don’t,only if i want something super smooth.Still the difference between them is noticeable,the old ones have this beautiful bite to them,very aggressive sounding,i really like it.As for the technically superior part,i understand this however in my experience sometimes superior sound quality does not always equate to better whether its hardware or software,I’m sure you are aware of this.Again i wouldn’t want the new filters to go.
Bwah, what you actually like is probably nothing less than the improper limiting of the resonant peaks of very old school digital filter implementations. They can get much! stronger in the khz range than the new filters which seem properly limited as to not to make your ears bleed. I just made a test comparing the lvls of old moog lpf vs new (upgrade button) in the spectrum analyser and was glad my headphones weren’t sitting on my ears while doing so. With the reso up the new filter sang nicely right some db above the sound it was whistling to, but the old was shooting its peak through the roof with a carrier rocket clipping everything like wtf…
Bwah, what you actually like is probably nothing less than the improper limiting of the resonant peaks of very old school digital filter implementations. They can get much! stronger in the khz range than the new filters which seem properly limited as to not to make your ears bleed. I just made a test comparing the lvls of old moog lpf vs new (upgrade button) in the spectrum analyser and was glad my headphones weren’t sitting on my ears while doing so. With the reso up the new filter sang nicely right some db above the sound it was whistling to, but the old was shooting its peak through the roof with a carrier rocket clipping everything like wtf…
No,no excessive resonant peaks here.In fact resonance was set near bottom so as to barely hear it.
can you further explain what kind of setup? classic hipass with slight reso to boost the body around 240 hz, or even sharper cut? It will depend on the order of the filter then how “sharp” it will sound.
I find the new moog filters behave a bit different in highpass mode than other filters, maybe that makes a diff. looking at the ana filter device you see a weird freq plot shape, as though the reso peak was lower in frequency than one would expect.
Also you will need to boost the volume if you apply drive, it will put on kind of like a saturation effect which can lower overall volume.