Pattern Numbers Reshuffling After Clone Or Make Unique

attaching a gif89 to demonstrate.

I make a selection of patterns w/ shift click, right click>organize>make unique.

I’m confused as to why the nonselected patterns are effected in any way, and if this isn’t the way to do what I’m trying to do what is the suggested method?

[follow up - i think what i’m reporting here is actually confusion caused by something apparently new in renoise 2.8 - pattern number reshuffling - I for one am not a fan of this change]

I guess we need a “selection ->” submenu to make clear what can be done with the selections and obviously leave out what can’t be done with them.

Sorry, vV, are you implying this feature to “make unique” a selection of patterns has been removed?

This operation works just fine in renoise 2.7.2, and as far back as it was implemented (after being suggested by yours truly) — unless this was intentionally removed (if so please explain why?!) this thread actually belongs in the “bug” thread.

I suspect that what I was seeing was actually an artifact of something new in renoise - pattern renumbering. I don’t think I like it. Sure stinks if you are not using pattern labels and simply relying on the assigned pattern number… that’s a big change. as you can tell from my gif I don’t have any pattern labels in view. I’m just relying on the pattern number, the old skool way.

I discovered this pattern renumbering when getting thrown off also with pattern cloning.

create a new song.

add three more patterns.

expand the pattern label view so you can label your patterns.

label pattern 0 “0”, pattern 1 “1” pattern 2 “2” pattern 3 “3”

select pattern 0 and 1

rightclick>clone (or use your kb shortcut)

Jenoki: You can just disable the sorting if you don’t like it. Right-click a sequence block and disable “Keep Sequence Sorted”.

As dBlue already explained:uncheck the bottom option in the context-menu that you pop up in your example, it should restore the old behavior.

dblue’s response came after my posts here, and I heard him the first time. thanks though!!

Thank you for telling me how to disable that…

But using the new behaviour, if i have a pattern in the middle of something and then delete it from there, meaning to add it again somewhere else, it seems the pattern really gets deleted? The next pattern gets its pattern number and the pattern seems to be lost. Not cool, no?

I think all removed patterns still exist and start from number LastPattern+2 (IE there is one blank one between the last one and the ones removed from the list.) At least that’s what I remember reading was incorporated after the initial complains of them being permanently deleted but I reverted to the old method myself…

Did you “Insert” ed the pattern or "Insert Paste"d the pattern?

I am NOT a fan of this feature or bug or whatever it is. Its confusing me and is not the least bit helpfull. I am used to remember what number pattern does what in my songs. I KNOW that pattern 11 is the first pattern of the chorus. Its part of my workflow. I KNOW that if I change pattern 11 one place in the song it changes all the choruses. Nice. Predictable. Easy to copy, paste and change. Now my workflow is completely screwed up!!!
I allready know what position the different patterns are. I dont need the patterns to match the position numbering. That is just ridiculous!

I know I can rightclick and disable, but that does not disable the feature for the whole project, or future projects for that matter.
Either change it back to how it was or AT LEAST make a checkbox in the prefs where I can CHOOSE to use this feature\bug or not.


Indeed it is awfully confusing. If we keep it like this we’re going to see lots of these topics…

Allmost as irritating as the pattern numbers getting shuffled around is: When adding a new pattern Renoise automatically gives the new pattern a unique number. This bugs me big time. Is there an option to keep the old way?

Seriously! Ive been working in Renoise since 2004 and I have applauded every update. Until now. This screwing around with pattern numbering really f##ks up my workflow. And if you ask me, workflow is 80% of a musicalsoftware.

Stop ruining my workflow!


I’m fairly convinced that the reasoning behind this feature is moving renoise towards a more buzz-like pattern ordering, where the ‘patterns’ are managed per-track with the pattern alias -system. The actual pattern numbering would remain backstage, while the aliases would take the main role. If my assumption is correct, I’m all for taking this idea forward. The obstacles shouldn’t bee too hard to overcome. Of course 2.8 will most likely not have the ultimate solutions. It seems like a huge step to take for a purely pattern-based interface, and having the weight of tracker-legacy on the programs shoulders probably doesn’t make it any easier.

For me the current implementation still seems a bit rough on the edges. The ‘keep sequence sorted’ -option does not work well for me, because I’m accustomed to identify patterns by their pattern number. Changing them ‘under the hood’ is like secretly reordering my living room furniture. I’ll end up sitting on the floor, slouching back where my couch used to be. So for now, I’m sticking to the old method.

The new sequence sections help structuring the sequence list, though. :)

Save the disabled option into your template song and your rid of it.

It’s actually a quite strange decicion to change this behavior when most of the users need to save the old way to their template… Why???

Because of how patterns are stored and ordered in the song and it would be disturbing if it would be in the preferences because that setting would mess with songs that were written with the opposite setting of how it is then. I can fully understand that the wish lives to apply the old behavior automatically on old songs (2.7.2 and older) and load 2.8 songs with the setting they were saved to.

The decision to make the current behavior, default behavior is purely based on aiding newcomers by supplying them with logical orders.

I must say, the new default behavior is fine for me. But I’m also quite new to Renoise and trackers in general. I’m usually working with aliases in the pattern matrix, which suits my taste and thought processes when arranging quite well.

Lets say I disable pattern sorting and save it in my template…

-When adding new patterns, the new patterns still end up having unique pattern numbers. Why?! Im having a hard time understanding why this feature cant be optional. Or even why it ecxists.

-When I copy a pattern(sequence), the copied patterns gets new, unique pattern numbers, and not the the pattern numbers I copied from and INTENDED the new patterns to have. Fekkin pisses me off just writing about it!! Make It Optional

I am extremly unhappy with these features. I make my living using Renoise, and now it shits all over my workflow whenever I try to get things done.