Recommend me a new DAW


(ffx) #37

Regarding the original question of the thread:

Maybe try Bitwig. It is the most modern DAW approach with amazingpossibilities. Quite similar to Renoise, when it comes to meta device routing. But here Bitwig almost is superior over the Renoise approach: So you can multiple nest containers, have parallel chaining and also complexside chain routing. So as a result I can do really complex meta stuff. Also you can insert any plugin to feedback fx, which turns the bitwig delay into a fx with endless possibilities.

​The gui is really fast and provides constant 60fps, so it’s obviously fully gfx hardware accelerated. Rumors say that bitwig 2 could be released on namm 2017 in january. If you visit #renoise chat, you will see that actually most renoisers there already switched to bitwig and maybe can answer you more questions.

Of course Renoise is much more advanced in some points over Bitwig, when it comes to scripting/tools, sample mangling or meta manipulation thru formula device. Or pattern editing :unsure:I seem to be the only human being on this planet who prefers pattern editing over pianoroll… On the other hand, automation editing is quite retarded in Renoise, but a bliss in Bitwig. There you have everything like spline-curves, fancy pitch curves, high resolution.


(xbitz) #38

Of course Renoise is much more advanced in some points over Bitwig, when it comes to scripting/tools, sample mangling or meta manipulation thru formula device. Or pattern editing :unsure:I seem to be the only human being on this planet who prefers pattern editing over pianoroll… On the other hand, automation editing is quite retarded in Renoise, but a bliss in Bitwig. There you have everything like spline-curves, fancy pitch curves, high resolution.

u can use Redux (https://www.renoise.com/products/redux) in Bitiwg, formula device is not visible by default but can be copy/pasted from Renoise


(ffx) #39

eh? no, I want to do maths with bitwig meta signals…


(thalamus) #40

This is cool, have you managed to get Renoise wrapped by Bidule?

Bitwig + Bidule + ReWire + Renoise also quite good candidate IMO

d-58427a2216ca3-bitiw.jpg


(Raul (ulneiz)) #41

I disagree on the improvement aspect, I was gonna write a huge response but I will just say the idea of “improvement through updates” is silly, to think that a program needs to improve is purely a personal want not a need. But we live in an age where that is how we think. Don’t blame renoise for a lack of updates, blame yourselves for being tricked to think you need it.

I respect your comment. But maybe you should open your eyes a little. Their way of thinking is contrary to evolution. A parking brake.You can not generalize and think that everyone wants the same thing, that everyone needs the same thing.

"improvement through updates" is silly…Seriously???Have you ever tried to program something? Or that you has made mistakes?Or create anything in life, and have not thought that later can be improved?Think of anything.

Speaking of programming. Renoise has internal faults and it will continue with bugs or mistakes. An update fixes them, some mistakes. It is not a necessity, it is an obligation as a programmersolve problems with your code. Apart from adding improvements or changing things to improve, it is the law of life, in everything.From prehistory.

A parking brake!

I wonder, how can anyone think so.You, in your life, is an constant update!!!


(Fsus4) #42

The Renoise project is not dead, but indeed it has been confirmed by taktik that they’reworking on something else. AndTBH I personallyfind that piece of information to be more exciting thanan upcoming “Renoise 3.2 beta testing starts” thread. Redux was awesome news for those of us who’re also spending lots of time in other hosts. Such a greatdecision from the developers right there, expanding into the plugin market.

Assuming the stuff they’re working onis actually related to music production, we wouldn’t be able toguess what’s coming out next from these sharp minds. Could really be anything from a new plugin to a new software or even an mobile app or some web service or some tracker equivalent of movie editing software (after all, taktik is also the lead programmer of the Sublime HD software, so it’s not too far stretched).

Now it seemsto me thatsomebody who’s using Renoise as his/her ONLY tool for making some noise today in 2016 is either 1) very happy with the product and/or busy composing music, or 2) very narrow minded and/orunable to master othertools out there.

Until the next major Renoise release,let’sall just learn Lua scripting andmake an effort to press the stop button onall those constant demands for more and more and more.It’s not a human right to have your favorite music software updated everyyear. If you can’t get the job done in Renoise 3.1, simply find what you need elsewhereand get the job done.


(ffx) #43

Personally I think anybody who’s using Renoise as their only tool for making some noise is either 1) very happy with the product and busy composing music, or 2) very narrow minded and/orunable to master othertools out there.

Well, not sure what the intention was to write this sentence. Maybe just to emphasize that you are the best and most intelligent musician in the world… For me it’s often about the length of a workflow. If it tends to become too technical due lot of workarounds, I can loose my flow of creativity. And I already know Renoise very, very well, like other common DAWs, too. And so I can tell, that for me Renoise itself still can break the flow. Even more then any weird combination of DAWs, thru Rewire :stuck_out_tongue: That’s for engineers, not for creativity. I am no sys admin.


(Fsus4) #44

Well, the workflowaspect is the same regardless of which DAW you use. The simple fact is that spending time inside a tracker isvery unlikeplayingfreely in ajazz band. Tracking ismore like writing and coding. So maybethose users who constantly complain that they can’t record their band into multi-channel audiotracksin Renoise would be better off learning some other software for such purposes.

Personally for creativity and un-interupted workflow, I still find hardware synths and real instruments to be the best. Just invest in agood workstation and a hardware recording solutionand let the inspiration come.


(pat) #45

Once I figured out how to get rid of the headaches involved with using Rewire and plugins that have latency, I am really, really happy using Rewire to let a DAW handle audio tracks. It would be pretty silly for Renoise to implement audio tracks (other DAWs do it way better), unless it provided a new take on audio tracks. But just sticking them in when Rewire does the job makes no sense.

As for the OP, if frequency of updates is a big indicator of value to you… Reaper is the way to go, for sure.


(ffx) #46

… but it could be like this in Renoise! Not so far away… :wacko:

REMOVED THAT IMAGE


(ffx) #47

Nah, honestly was a bad ironic joke. I seem to be the only one believing that Renoise could be a comfort car…


(Fsus4) #48

… but it could be like this in Renoise! Not so far away… :wacko:

IMG_1803.JPG

What I first noticed in that picture was those lovely little white flowers. And that’s actually a proper vision from my point of view: spread out and flourish! Make new plugins from Renoise code. Make the tracker pattern editor visit other hosts… (Yeah, a Redux-like VST instrument minihost with the pattern editor of Renoise… that wouldreally beevolutionary and awesome…)

Now, about Renoise development being dead and all that talk… It’s simply a matter of accepting the cold facts of reality here. The most basic fact to accept is that there is not enough time available for the developers to make our dreams come true.Like all the rest of us they probablytoo have theirregularjobs, families, hobbies and a vast array ofother priorities – including other software projects! Maybe they can spare some time to fix a few critical bugs, but beyond that? With a code as complex as Renoise’s? Within years?Sorry, but not very likely. It could happen, but let’s not count on it.

It’s probably the best thing to do right now… just give it up, that daydream of Renoise the comfort car or whatever you wish itwould become,and you won’t feel disappointed anymore. I, too, fell into that trap for quite some time. But I’ve accepted the hard fact that wishing won’t make it so. No amount of new threads filled with arguments or cats in these forums will make it so either.

The only thing I can see could change the situation in the future (unless they got a huge amount of cash and started to work full time on the project, getting even more coders involved) would be if taktik & co actually adopted a new approach to their license model, and made it possible for users to license the entire Renoise code (or essential parts of it) just as game developerstoday use i.e. the Unreal Engine code to build new games, simulations, whatever. They could then publish and maintain the official Renoise project, while essentially saying: “If you want feature X, code it!”.


(ffx) #49

Now, about Renoise development being dead and all that talk… It’s simply a matter of accepting the cold facts of reality here.

Well, the rust only appeared only because of age. Over time, the DAW market develops and fulfills standards. Only Renoise does not :stuck_out_tongue: That’s what I wanted to express. Really, the other DAWs are so limited as well in other ways if it comes to detail (except Bitwig), I mean that silly Cubase retarded stone-age-mixer or the dust in conception overall (not bitwig), or the hell of an ugly, stuttering gui in reaper(not bitwig), or that kinda nice approach in s1, but not really straight forward (except bitwig). Ok it’s all retarded. I basically want Renoise being bitwig. But with tracker view and better. Is that too much expected? Why??? NO IT’S NOT! JUST DO IT! C’MON GUYS! NOW, FINALLY!!


(Andrey Marchenko) #50

Well, the rust only appeared only because of age. Over time, the DAW market develops and fulfills standards. Only Renoise does not :stuck_out_tongue: That’s what I wanted to express. Really, the other DAWs are so limited as well in other ways if it comes to detail (except Bitwig), I mean that silly Cubase retarded stone-age-mixer or the dust in conception overall (not bitwig), or the hell of an ugly, stuttering gui in reaper(not bitwig), or that kinda nice approach in s1, but not really straight forward (except bitwig). Ok it’s all retarded. I basically want Renoise being bitwig. But with tracker view and better. Is that too much expected? Why??? NO IT’S NOT! JUST DO IT! C’MON GUYS! NOW, FINALLY!!

And this thin is not so hard. If DEVs only want it… That’s main reason for all things.


(TanookiMonk) #51

Well well well… This discussion happens all the time after a big renoise updates. Big updates take times to create and time to polish. In fact the only things that user always ask for is News from the team. News about what they work on and future of renoise. But the team don’t seem to work that way… Look at this like a girl that does make any sound in the act but squirt the updates at the right time :wink:


(4kb) #52

meh


(Mivo) #53

+1 for HiDPI support. This isn’t something for high end computers any more, I picked up a second hand laptop in a third world country and renoise looks like it is made for ants. I could live with everything else as it is currently but this support makes renoise not far from unusable without less than perfect workarounds.

For me this is really what my future with Renoise hinges on. I tried, and I end up with eyestrain every time I use it on 1440p. So I can either ignore that I have a beefy 5820k desktop and make music on a several years old 1080p laptop with headphones, or I use a DAW that supports high-dpi displays at least in some way. I already own the Producer Edition of FL Studio, which does have support for high-dpi monitors and high resolutions. I would much rather continue to use Renoise, but if this improvement isn’t even on the horizon (Sunvox now has some font scaling also), I may have to bite the bullet and settle for something that I know will also support (offer scaling for) higher and 4k resolutions, because that’s what I’ll likely upgrade to eventually, in a couple years.

Or I do the laptop thing, but that would essentially just be buying time. I would do it if Taktik said that high-dpi support will be implemented in two or three years, because that’s an OK time frame for me (probably not for others), but considering the slow development times for Renoise, which I generally don’t mind, paired with “we’re working on something else”, well, it’s not promising no matter how much I’d like to believe (and be told) differently.


(Andrey Marchenko) #54

Folks, can someone create screenshot how Renoise looks on 1440p? I saw that Vorpal using Renoise on iMac and as i can see it’s ok.

Screen_Shot_2016_12_06_at_13_31_47.png


(boonier) #55

This is cool, have you managed to get Renoise wrapped by Bidule?

Yeah what’s going on 'ere then?

It should be noted that (for me at least) running Renoise as a slave doesn’t show multiple inputs up in the master host, and midi is non existant. So probably should be added to the list of bug fix to dos?

Edit - the audio inputs DO show up, sorry. The MIDI is a problem (so controlling the instruments in Renoise over the rewire bus).


(mclstr) #56

Re: “The MIDI is a problem (so controlling the instruments in Renoise over the rewire bus”

Sorry, but I am on Linux. I have no problem connecting midi and audio between Renoise and the other DAWs that I use.

I thought Jack also worked with Windows and Mac?

I personally prefer to keep my DAWs seperate running audio and midi over the Jack buss connection. I don’t see the advantage with running Renoise inside a wrapper of some other DAW?