Recommend me a new DAW


(Zer0 Fly) #21

It would be hard to tell you what software would fit for you…without knowing how you are about to use it.

You feel unhappy with renoise, so maybe you are lacking modern features like sidechaining, midi/plugin layering and freezing? Maybe the unclear user interface was a hindrance for you? Or all the extra freaky tricks needed to get this or that special function working in a half-assed way? C’mon, tell us, tell the devs so they know what went wrong for you. This way we might also be able to suggest you some other software that might suit you more to achieve the indirect_mental_transduction™ of your creative ideas without having to woe insanity every half hour (or so).

And remember to pass on your renoise license to some zealous rookie at a fair price. The force will be with him/her/it (I mean that rookie being). That will bring fresh blood (or plasma) to the renoise realm, and you’re gonna need that money to buy a daw software product at times x the price point of renoise. Ha ha ha ha…


(anttimaatteri) #22

oh my, plugin hoarders (i am one haha), daw hoppers, 4bar loop slackers and other folks sittin “in the waitin room” ^^.

all daws i know are good enough to arrange music. the new tracktion 7 aint bad too. i like the new layer possibilities so far from what ive seen. besides renoise im using ableton live(cos of push and rewire ability with renoise) and bitwig (no rewire, rudimentary push script, but better handling than ableton live).


(Mivo) #23

An update has been confirmed so I don’t think it’s dead. Did i miss something?

Which thread was that in? Just curious if anything was said about better support for high-dpi displays, which is really the only thing I miss (badly). Otherwise I’m perfectly happy with Renoise as it is.


(organic io) #24

I never do not understand people who require annual updates. Why you dont want new update for your guitar?

Seriously. Renoise was already amazing and/or perfect years ago. Even if they hadn’t updated it since 2006 I would probably still be using it.


(4kb) #25

An update has been confirmed so I don’t think it’s dead. Did i miss something?

Since spending time on the old Reason forums, I have found it is customary that a good products fans eventually turn on the developers for not doing enough for to them enough and start thinking and typing in click bait

I call it Forum Depression when you spend too much time on forums and not enough time making music

I also blame the internet in general, but in an age where everything has daily updates seeing something not have those might make some think the project is dead.

But I agree, why would that even matter? If it works, why do you need constant development? Is that the new way to tell if something is good now?


(xbitz) #26

Bitwig + Bidule + ReWire + Renoise also quite good candidate IMO

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(ffx) #27

You’re absolutely wrong, but nevertheless we do wish you luck in your search for another host that allows you to get funky.Making music is the most important thing here, after all.It doesn’t really matter how you do it, or what tools you use, it’s only important that you do it.Cheers.

Well, IMHO this is only half the truth. Beside of the obvious greatness of Renoise, it has a bunch of limitations when it comes to details. And these limitations make things like a precise sidechain or a custom spline automation curve impossible, or let’s say it’s quite hard/painful to reach a level of professionally in the music, because of these limitations. A bunch of people begging for those features for years now, and you constantly are ignoring us. Also we have to wait over a year for Bugfixes… This of course leads into frustration. I find it quite sad that you guys do not seem to see clearly these last missing 20%… And this is one reason, why you maybe loosing customers.

So instead believing that those efforts do not calculate for you, why not try to change this perspective, see it as an opportuny?


(Raul (ulneiz)) #28

Which thread was that in? Just curious if anything was said about better support for high-dpi displays, which is really the only thing I miss (badly). Otherwise I’m perfectly happy with Renoise as it is.

Yes,A drastic improvement with the issue of resolution for large monitors would be welcomed by all.

On the other hand, Renoise 3.1 can also improve many other things.

Seriously. Renoise was already amazing and/or perfect years ago. Even if they hadn’t updated it since 2006 I would probably still be using it.

Renoise, even now, is far from perfect. Even now, Renoise 3.1.0 stands halfway.However, there is no reason at all to forego it. Quite the opposite. We should all support the project.

I never do not understand people who require annual updates. Why you dont want new update for your guitar?

Perhaps because there are many users who widen the horizon and look at other DAWs with magnifying glass. They see that there are a lot of useful features that Renoise does not have. Examples beasts:

  • Piano Roll (or similar for editing merged with the pattern editor), or wide view of the whole song (something like the Matrix Editor but to the beast).
  • Audio Tracks.These two things seem outstanding for years, and are not addressed.
  • Video Edition & soundtrack.It has a lot to do with the overall vision of the song and ask to make slices with it easily.
  • Music Score
  • GUI for higher resolutions and customizable…
  • Drastic improvement of the Automation Editor, keyzones, among others.
  • Drastic improvement with the use of colors, focused on associating the tracks with the instruments.
  • Inclusion of small instrument icons, for tracks and Instrument box.
  • Decent classification of instruments in the instrument box
  • More MIDI commands related to recording routing and editing.
  • More folders to load VST, improve the metronome.
  • Multiplication buttons for Pattern Matrix…
  • List to select templates according to style…
  • More practical examples for LUA code.Yes, we users can create tools It involves learning LUA,but if you like it, you can do great things.
  • Greater integration with tools (a additional fixed area to load, as if integrated, with certain size standards). For example, below the Pattern Editor, as Track DSP pane.Thus the tools appear to be part of Renoise, more integrated.
  • And a long etc.

Yes, maybe all together seems very beast, but it is the only tracker we have decent, and it would be wonderful to improve these things, or at least some of them…

Nor is it a question of protest. Renose 3.1 is fine, and allows for many things that other DAWs do not have.But many things can be improved.At the moment, error correction is more than welcome. Everyone will applaud.

I think this whole thing has a lot to do with people who look at other DAWs, and understand their capabilities.Also look at the ideas in these forums. There’s a lot.And of course, we would all like these features to be in Renoise, the only tracker and serious DAW joined.

To a guitar you can only paint or change the strings, or sell it.Or break it on a stage!Maybe he’ll leave me something.Oh yes, put stickers or badges.


(Raul (ulneiz)) #29

Since spending time on the old Reason forums, I have found it is customary that a good products fans eventually turn on the developers for not doing enough for to them enough and start thinking and typing in click bait

I call it Forum Depression when you spend too much time on forums and not enough time making music

I also blame the internet in general, but in an age where everything has daily updates seeing something not have those might make some think the project is dead.

But I agree, why would that even matter? If it works, why do you need constant development? Is that the new way to tell if something is good now?

Maybe you have to see that Renoise is the only serious tracker. That is, there are no other DAWs that are tracker. And those who love Renoise, want their tracker to improve. It is that potential is bestial.The way to shoot notes by tracker has many advantages.On the other hand, it is also true that its development is slow.It is striking that the GUI is the same since birth. For example.

If you do not update, it is like going against the current.You could use very large monitors to control Renoise. Imagine. It’s an example of so many…


(Raul (ulneiz)) #30

Well, IMHO this is only half the truth. Beside of the obvious greatness of Renoise, it has a bunch of limitations when it comes to details. And these limitations make things like a precise sidechain or a custom spline automation curve impossible, or let’s say it’s quite hard/painful to reach a level of professionally in the music, because of these limitations. A bunch of people begging for those features for years now, and you constantly are ignoring us. Also we have to wait over a year for Bugfixes… This of course leads into frustration. I find it quite sad that you guys do not seem to see clearly these last missing 20%… And this is one reason, why you maybe loosing customers.

So instead believing that those efforts do not calculate for you, why not try to change this perspective, see it as an opportuny?

Good approach! Maybe some comments in other Renoise forums are a little out of place. However, other comments are worthy and fair.

On the other hand, I do not think Roppenzo liked to see Shia (and your “Just Do It”).Of course, you have to take things with humor. I hope you have a good day!


(Bungle) #31

You’re absolutely wrong, but nevertheless we do wish you luck in your search for another host that allows you to get funky.

Making music is the most important thing here, after all.

It doesn’t really matter how you do it, or what tools you use, it’s only important that you do it.

Cheers.

Nice, so are you going to give us any info, because you sure aren’t bringing releases ?

As for the rest, yes you are completely right, and the OP should go and find a host that fits their needs.

I shall repeat this again, just for clarity for everybody, Renoise is a TRACKER, nothing more, nothing less, and will never be anything more, the developers have made it perfectly clear that Renoise is and will remain just a TRACKER.

As it happens, it is a damn fine TRACKER, and as long as they don’t randomly jump to bigger version numbers when they have to update to support newer OS releases (Meaning i pay again for nothing) who gives a shit if they don’t add features, when they add them they are esoteric features like scripting that are used for a couple of months by 3rd parties, then left unused forever, so enjoy it as it is, it is what it is, it is one of those rarest of software developments, it is actually finished (Besides a few bug fixes here and there)

If you need to record linear audio for bands or whatever, WTF are you doing using Renoise, if you want vast compositional tools for big orchestration WTF are you doing using Renoise, use it for tracking, go use something else for everything else.


(danoise) #32

who gives a shit if they don’t add features, when they add them they are esoteric features like scripting that are used for a couple of months by 3rd parties, then left unused forever

Bungle, you’ve pointed this out on a number of occasions. Not sure where you stand on this, seems like you’re always speaking for someone else.

Did you have hopes that scripting would give you feature X, but then it didn’t materialize somehow? Or do you feel let down by tools that aren’t feeling native enough, or no longer maintained?

Because, if your argument is that it was a waste of developer resources you’re obviously ignoring the fact that, for a lot of people scripting & tools has become absolutely essential.

My perspective on this is that, precisely because the API covers so much of Renoise, it allows the software to be more vertically integrated than pretty much anything else I can think of. And compared to the time it actually took for taktik & co. to implement (remember, scripting was introduced all the way back in2.6; since then, maintaining it has consumed minimal time on their behalf), I think it was a very smart decision.

And yes, obviously I’m the kind of guy you would expect this kind of answer from. Since I have invested so much time and effort into writing tools, anything else would make me look like a fool, right? Haha, well, I just hope I can see things clearly anyway, because I kind of like to hang out inside this forest.


(Mister Sombrero) #33

renoise is the best. renoise only needs audiotracks, native oscillators (other than samples), and change up the behaviour of the vibrato and tremelo commands…plus some small tweaks like my feature suggestion earlier today.

I will be paying for the next update…cos i bought renois at 1.9.2 so, now im waiting for the 3.2 or whatevs.


(fladd) #34

Renoise scripting is a great idea, no question. Problem is that the API is changed constantly, which leaves a lot of tools stuck to a certain version. And that gives the impression that the whole scripting thing is not well supported anymore. Some of the best tools are not available for the current Renoise version and people realize that. I guess that is what Bungle is talking about. I myself am not investing much into developing new tools because I am afraid they won’t work anymore in a year and I might not have the time to maintain them to make them work with the new API. And that’s just fine. I’m not criticising this. Just pointing out how it is perceived.


(Meef Chaloin) #35

+1 for HiDPI support. This isn’t something for high end computers any more, I picked up a second hand laptop in a third world country and renoise looks like it is made for ants. I could live with everything else as it is currently but this support makes renoise not far from unusable without less than perfect workarounds.


(4kb) #36

Maybe you have to see that Renoise is the only serious tracker. That is, there are no other DAWs that are tracker. And those who love Renoise, want their tracker to improve. It is that potential is bestial.The way to shoot notes by tracker has many advantages.On the other hand, it is also true that its development is slow.It is striking that the GUI is the same since birth. For example.

If you do not update, it is like going against the current.You could use very large monitors to control Renoise. Imagine. It’s an example of so many…

I disagree on the improvement aspect, I was gonna write a huge response but I will just say the idea of “improvement through updates” is silly, to think that a program needs to improve is purely a personal want not a need. But we live in an age where that is how we think. Don’t blame renoise for a lack of updates, blame yourselves for being tricked to think you need it.

~distractions~

Though I will say, we also live in an age where people hoard thousands of kick drum samples and have 50 different compressor plug ins. So again, I don’t think anything I can say will further this discussion in any way when the norm has been created by excess and buying More Crap™.

But I personally have no problem with the lack of interface changes or lack of updates, I’ve been staring at staff paper daily for the past 7 years (either in reading or writing), I have yet to think “man this hasn’t changed much in the past 100 years, RIP staff paper” or something. I think the whole idea of complaining or nitpicking about software like this is daft, it’s a trend I hope stops soon, but as consumers become more entitled by the day, and as companies take more and more advantage of the demand, I fear it will only get worse and that more and more software will become garbage.

(not to say renoise is perfect, nothing is, just that consumer trends in daws/music making software should not be this way, it’s really really stupid and bad for everything)


(ffx) #37

Regarding the original question of the thread:

Maybe try Bitwig. It is the most modern DAW approach with amazingpossibilities. Quite similar to Renoise, when it comes to meta device routing. But here Bitwig almost is superior over the Renoise approach: So you can multiple nest containers, have parallel chaining and also complexside chain routing. So as a result I can do really complex meta stuff. Also you can insert any plugin to feedback fx, which turns the bitwig delay into a fx with endless possibilities.

​The gui is really fast and provides constant 60fps, so it’s obviously fully gfx hardware accelerated. Rumors say that bitwig 2 could be released on namm 2017 in january. If you visit #renoise chat, you will see that actually most renoisers there already switched to bitwig and maybe can answer you more questions.

Of course Renoise is much more advanced in some points over Bitwig, when it comes to scripting/tools, sample mangling or meta manipulation thru formula device. Or pattern editing :unsure:I seem to be the only human being on this planet who prefers pattern editing over pianoroll… On the other hand, automation editing is quite retarded in Renoise, but a bliss in Bitwig. There you have everything like spline-curves, fancy pitch curves, high resolution.


(xbitz) #38

Of course Renoise is much more advanced in some points over Bitwig, when it comes to scripting/tools, sample mangling or meta manipulation thru formula device. Or pattern editing :unsure:I seem to be the only human being on this planet who prefers pattern editing over pianoroll… On the other hand, automation editing is quite retarded in Renoise, but a bliss in Bitwig. There you have everything like spline-curves, fancy pitch curves, high resolution.

u can use Redux (https://www.renoise.com/products/redux) in Bitiwg, formula device is not visible by default but can be copy/pasted from Renoise


(ffx) #39

eh? no, I want to do maths with bitwig meta signals…


(thalamus) #40

This is cool, have you managed to get Renoise wrapped by Bidule?

Bitwig + Bidule + ReWire + Renoise also quite good candidate IMO

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